The Undeath

Arkade said:
If I saw a stranger call on chaos to kill a bandit, I would care little. A bad man would be dead and IN MY OPINION the balance a hair closer.
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As debate to try and change your opinion on this matter seems pointless I give you the following fact to ponder:

In the above situation, depending on what land you are traveling in, if you do not detain or report such stranger to a local authority you yourself would be guilty of conspiracy to conceal an act of necromancy.

I recommend you keep this in mind. If you were unaware of this, and are currently harboring the knowledge of known necromancers, I recommend you contact your local nobles immediately.

-Pantzike
 
Well, I admit to being quite stuborn, and I do not ask you to not try convincing me of anything. But dont try if your not willing to hear me out.
 
Ezri said:
Necromancy is NOT a tool. (...) Necromancy is the act of taking the natural flow of the earth and corrupting it.
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This argument has been made many times here, but it nonetheless remains the simplest to disprove. Consider the following:

The Elemental Plane of Fire has no connection to the Earth. It is not a place inhabited by 'living' beings, as we define ourselves. There is no significant amount of undead. There is no 'Spirit of the Earth' to contact, no tie to living things, no 'natural order' as there is on Fortannis, for Earth and Healing and Life are not the appropriate 'natural order' to exist there. It is Fire. It is nothing but, and the epitome of. However, on the Elemental Plane of Fire, it is possible to call upon the Earth, as it is possible to call upon Chaos. There have been circumstances where Chaos and Earth taint have been called through, and then seeped their way out through, portals to Fortannis when the corresponding spells have been cast too close to them, but at any significant distance, there is no lingering effect. The taint does not manifest. There is no connection. The natural flow of the Earth cannot be corrupted, because there is no natural flow to be corrupted. (Not by Earth magic, in any case. I have found that in some parts of the Elemental Plane of Fire that Ice magic corrupts the plane in a similar fashion, but that is another topic altogether.)

Now, many planes are like this; separated from the Earth, but still reachable. There are additionally planes which exist that are separated from the Earth and inaccessible. The Well of Stars, the Home of Thunder, and the Grove of the Endless are just a few locations where I have traveled that Earth magic is completely unavailable. The spells do not function. It is quite impossible to cast Earth or Chaos, and so it is quite impossible for either to taint these lands.

I could make my Plane of Fire argument about any number of locations, including the other Elemental Planes, the Home of Fallen Dreams, a few of the Great Graveyards, but they would be reasonably repetitive. The definition you give is quite false. On Fortannis, necromancy quite frequently has the side effect of tainting the land under which it was cast, but to assume that is its entirety is far too simple.

~Kerjal
 
Arkade said:
Nothing has hurt this world as Necromancy has. The twisted Chaos has made a putrid mess of this world, and great and honorable people of every race have protected the life that still remains. I said that I would not stop one who calls on chaos, I would not condemn them. If I saw a vampire calling chaos I would harness the furty of this world to destroy it. Unlike manny, I am beyond hate, anger, and pitty for what has happened to our world. I feal the earth's sting, and the burn of the touch of chaos. I look beyond my selfish hate and fear, I will become the change I want in this world. I will heal, and aid in the rebirthing of light and truth. Allow me to turn this disscusion in a different direction.

Obviously there are those of us who will argue to the ends of the earth that we see some sort of balence in chaos. There are those of us who are sickened by the thought of one who would not kill another for calling on chaos. This topic runs beyond laws and into our very essence and morals. How can we all work for the same common goals without breaking into violance? What common ground do we stand on? We all care for the well being of those who breathe life, let us discuss rebuilding. I hear that Valdanis is recovering well, is there anything we ALL can do to help?
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You and I will only share the same goals if you decide you would like to fall upon your own sword repeatedly until your permanent death.

I cannot believe you would utter this within dreamshot of intelligent people. You have time and time again proven that not only are you ireveocably evil, but that you also certainly didn't graduate from Necromancer school with high marks. Please do us all a favor and silence yourself. It will actually give me a challenge while I hunt you.

Until I Bring Back The Sun,

Dikembe
 
Dikembe

While I found your words ... damn funny, I must admonish that Vigilante Justice is not acceptable according to most laws. And though Arkade... speaks... as a necromantic supporter, unless he actually breaks laws, he has commited no crime.

Bringing back the sun is a goal worthy of you Dikembe, but doing so against the laws of the land is not.

~Glori
 
Fine.

I will hunt him.

When I find him he and I will sit and have tea while we discuss the effects of Necromancy on the world. It will be enlightening I'm sure.

Until I Bring Back the Sun,

Dikembe
 
AllianceNJ said:
While I found your words ... damn funny, I must admonish that Vigilante Justice is not acceptable according to most laws. And though Arkade... speaks... as a necromantic supporter, unless he actually breaks laws, he has commited no crime.
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Lady Knight Glorianna Wyndancer Nordenn - Your Highness proves her rank with such wisdom. Though chaoticians are seen as statutory criminals, the immolation of Law in pursuit of them is the greater scourge. If we abandon Justice in our frenzy to destroy Chaos, we sew more destruction than the very decay with which we battle. Above all, we are creatures of reason and thought, not amoral spasms of nature.


Dramthin Hartsboon
Simple Keeper of the Tainted Grove
 
There is no discussion. There can be no debate. To cast necromancy corrupts the earth, as pouring ink into a glass of water makes it undrinkable. Should there be no other source of the earth to draw upon, you will be letting loose the corruption of necromancy within yourself to fuel the magic. The fact that it is not harming the plane you are on is immaterial. It is harming something; that is its nature.

-Eleghedhron
 
This entire "discussion" will never meet common ground. Mainly because no one is agreeing on terms and definitions.

Suffice it to say Kerjal... Your arguement to me is flawed because I believe Earth Magic is in the natural Order, and Chaos magic is a perversion of Earth magic and inherently evil in of its own nature... Irregardless of what plane of existence you are on. YOU and others feel Chaos magics are simply the reverse of Earth and is neither good nor evil but a magic.

This "gap" of definition will mean that neither side will acknowledge the arguments of the other, and will find the arguements flawed. Since most discussing this have either Earth casting capability or like Dikembe are at one with the Earth... it is beyond a matter of not understanding, but a fundemantal difference in perspective.

I will freely admit that I am on the "Zealous" side which dictates to me that Chaos Magic IS Necromancy IS evil and MUST be abolished.

Howeber as a Knight (Sir or Dame, not highness) I am also bound by the laws of the land to which I serve, and I cannot eradicate those who speak for Chaos magic. It is against the laws. Now Dikembe I am all for petition the changing of some laws... like Necromancers should face obliteration and not a death for their first crime... but until said time I must and will uphold the law.

One point Id like to make is... Arkade admits Chaos magic harms the land yet states if it is used for a "good" purpose it is acceptable. That is flawed. If something is bad... then it is bad no matter what purpose it is used for. CHaos Magic isnt an ambivalent thing. Its not Poison. Poison in and of itself is not evil. It can in fact be used for medicinal purposes to heal. Poison can also kill and hurt and if used along those lines then the act is evil. But Chaos magic in and of its VERY nature, evil. Therefore it cannot be used as an instrument for good. Because in doing good you are committing evil by USING an agent of evil.

So therefore I must conclude Arkade must view Chaos Magic as being a tool of magic and not the evil which I and many others view it.

This discussion saddens me. For it merely shows why the taint of CHaos spreads accross the lands. Not just because evil necromancers roam it, but because people are simply confused on the evil nature of chaos, and dont understand the vile corruption it spreads in not only the land, but the people who use it and condone its use.

There are some debates which... are acceptable for open minded conversation. This is not one of them.

And Dikembe. You remind me so much of Garuda. I miss him so but am so glad the Earth has Champions like you to shepherd and tend to it.

~Glorianna
 
Dikembe-
If you feal you must hunt me and kill me... I would not perswade you not to. If it is your goal and disire, I bid you good hunting. You speek with passion for the earth and I am honored that you would try to kill me for your cause. What do we have if not our own lives, persuits and desires? As for the conversation, I would like it much to speek with you before blood spills.

May the light break werever you stand.
Arkade Prince
 
I listen...
I hear...
I remember...
I see...
I hear...
I witness...
I act...

Master Ondreij Asclepius
Deputy Sheriff of Lindall
Caster of Earth Magic
Writer of Scrolls
Maker of Potions
 
So chaos is a bad thing rite? Thats the general verdict?
Does any kingdom in Fortanis do any research on the subject? Testing effects, maby writing out some facts, I'd love to compair notes to some old texts I found.

Arkade Prince
 
Prince, we've known eachother for only a few brief moments, but even I can tell the difference between you seeking heartfelt enlightenment and you just sniffing around to cause trouble. You've stated your position on chaotic and necromantic magics, they're well-known; you know that outspoken conversation in the Dreamscape in the manner you frame below only leads to strife, threats, and poisonous speech. If you were truly interested in enlightenment, you would seek out personal conversation with individuals or create discussions which aren't pointedly combative. If you're ever in Briarpass, seek out Guildmaster Simeon Rice: he has been sanctioned by the Earth Guild to study and record the forbidden knowledges you seek.

Otherwise, stop baiting people.


Master Dramthin Hartsboon
Keeper of the Tainted Grove
 
D'ere be a place 'round hear in Vandlar called "de Center" where dey do all kind o' research sanctioned by de crown, including d'at which you seek to play wit'. I don' recommend you be doin' dat, but if you must d'en you could always try d'at. Come on down to Zarden, in Vandlar, an' stop by de Celestial Guildhouse in de middle of town, ah'll introduce ya to one of de masters at de Center a ways out of town.

~Raif
 
The research conducted by the Center is not sanctioned by the crown.

Zarden is outside of the kingdom and not restricted by the kingdom in legal matters.

The research conducted inside, is permitted, but by the Council of Zarden, not by the kingdom.

-Tieran
 
Unlike any ot'er pit of necromantic filth, de crown has nev'r sent in anyone to shut it down, and dey know about it, d'erefore it is sanction'd by dem, in my not-always-totally-informed-but-never-humble opnion, anyway.


~Raif
 
If you really want to know the truth about Necromancy, and not just the pitiful propaganda these narrow minded fools spew at you, then come look me up in the Deadlands. I can explain all you need to know. The name is Emilio, Emilio T. Barranger. If you can't make it here, then I suggest you seek out my compatriot one Mr. Moonstream. Ask around, someone will know where to find me.

E.
 
Arkade,
If your goal is to determine if there is a place for you to go cast necromancy safely, this is probably not the best place to advertise. However if your goal is to just stir the pot and antagonize others then go right ahead because this will reach the most people and apparently give you what you want. I would however recommend staying well away from Emillo and Mr. Moonstream as spending any time with them will get you killed many times over and in a variety of ways. That is not a threat just a fact.

In Service,
Squire Theodin Stanhelm-Hammrfist
Sheriff of Badril’s Rest
 
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