The value of game days

Cerulean Jax;18623 said:
I think viewing it as a punishment is rather presumptious; if a player in a tabletop game attends a game session once every three or four months, and other players play every other weekend, is it fair for the occasinal player to gripe about not understanding what's going on with plot or why he's not in on all of the important events? No one is making anyone NOT attend, so if you forgo the chance to be involved in a plot hook, it's your own doing, not some 'punishment'.

This is an inappropriate comparison. It would be closer to say "If you had a table top game for 8 people once a month and then once a month the game master ran an "open" game for people knowing that only 2 people make it to that game every month. That punishes the other 6 players for not being able to attend or not wishing to attend due to the way in which that game is different from the other game where they all attend.
 
It's not a punishment. It's called life will always be greater than a game. Some people realize this. People lacking in that level of maturity say it's unfair when they can't attend.

However, *choosing* not to attend and then saying you're being punished for not going is so many levels of... stupid doesn't seem like the right word here because it's significantly more than that.
 
actually, NO, now what you're suggesting is just plain infantile. It's very VERY simple, everyone. If you want to attend gamedays, DO. If you don't want to, DON'T. In either choice, accept the responsibility for choosing to spend your time however you spend it, wherever you spend, and for Frack's sake, quit throwing tantrums over a game.

Derek Ironhammer;18625 said:
This is an inappropriate comparison. It would be closer to say "If you had a table top game for 8 people once a month and then once a month the game master ran an "open" game for people knowing that only 2 people make it to that game every month. That punishes the other 6 players for not being able to attend or not wishing to attend due to the way in which that game is different from the other game where they all attend.
 
Wow.

All this animosity over whether or not a game is fun dependant on where it is?

It's just a game! Saying you're punished for not making it to game days is like saying you're punished for missing an event here and there. Just because you aren't directly tied to plot does not mean you are being punished. Heck, I've been playing for 6 years now and I think I have only been directly tied to plot twice, yet I still enjoy the game.

You don't have to have your own plot, or be the one directly involved in the main plot, to roleplay. You just have to be optimistic and say, "I may not know what happened recently, but I think I'll get involved." If you miss an event do you complain that you aren't tied into the plot because something prevented you from attending the event? If you go to an event and see people running around in sneakers and jeans are you being punished by that?

What I am getting at is that if a person views not being involved as punishment for not attending a game day that person is really going to have a chip on their shoulder. Lighten up, enjoy the game, and realize that you can have fun without having to be directly related to a plot sequence.

And how does including optional content considered punishment for those that don't want to participate in it? No plot hooks? Well, get involved in the plot by asking questions when the event comes. Gamedays are not the sole supplier of plot. Reduced immersion? If you're not there you don't have to worry about that. No experience? Donate for gobbies to get the xp or pay-no-play (if allowed). No coin/loot? Well, that is another beast entirely and I won't go into that. I'll just say that my character of 6 years has never had more then 12 gold to his name so the entire loot system favors the greedy.

It is just game!
 
Alavatar;18628 said:
Wow.

All this animosity over whether or not a game is fun dependant on where it is?

It's just a game! Saying you're punished for not making it to game days is like saying you're punished for missing an event here and there. Just because you aren't directly tied to plot does not mean you are being punished. Heck, I've been playing for 6 years now and I think I have only been directly tied to plot twice, yet I still enjoy the game.

You don't have to have your own plot, or be the one directly involved in the main plot, to roleplay. You just have to be optimistic and say, "I may not know what happened recently, but I think I'll get involved." If you miss an event do you complain that you aren't tied into the plot because something prevented you from attending the event? If you go to an event and see people running around in sneakers and jeans are you being punished by that?

What I am getting at is that if a person views not being involved as punishment for not attending a game day that person is really going to have a chip on their shoulder. Lighten up, enjoy the game, and realize that you can have fun without having to be directly related to a plot sequence.

And how does including optional content considered punishment for those that don't want to participate in it? No plot hooks? Well, get involved in the plot by asking questions when the event comes. Gamedays are not the sole supplier of plot. Reduced immersion? If you're not there you don't have to worry about that. No experience? Donate for gobbies to get the xp or pay-no-play (if allowed). No coin/loot? Well, that is another beast entirely and I won't go into that. I'll just say that my character of 6 years has never had more then 12 gold to his name so the entire loot system favors the greedy.

It is just game!


Now this is how I view gaming. Nicely worded.
 
Keep in mind that if you want to get involved in a plot. There are things like the Dreamscape and IG PM's which you can send to people and try and get yourself involved. Or if you want to get really old school you could send people letters hand written through the good old postal service.
 
I'm just going to take a moment here to say that some posts make people angry. If a post makes you angry, do everyone a favor and walk away from it for a bit. Come back later and read it again. If it still makes you angry then don't reply to it. Posting when you are angry just adds to the flames and causes further flames to erupt.

Having said that I will add that none of my posts were made out of anger, nor do I have animosity toward the topic or the chapter. There are some posts on here that I found offensive and I was angered by them. I didn't reply to them.

If you've read anger or animosity in my posts, you should know that I didn't write that into them.

I am participating in this discussion as a discussion. I'm not saying people don't enjoy gamedays, I'm not saying anyone is a bad person for running them or going to them. I'm just discussing the merits and flaws of gamedays in general and expressing my opinions regarding them. I definitely appreciate all of the constructive and thought provoking posts even if I disagree with them. This isn't my thread, but I felt this needed to be said because it seems that a few people are either reading way to far into what is being said or they are emotional about the topic.

So in essence, kick back, smoke a bowl, go for a walk, drink a beer or whatever you have to do to get back to peaceful calm and please share your valuable opinions with everyone in a more constructive way.

Thank you much.
 
I'm just flabberghasted at the notion that anyone would suggest they're being punished for NOT going to a game day.

Frankly, if someone is too immature to realize that their decisions have consequences (good, bad, or indifferent), then they probably need to stop playing. They aren't ready for games like NERO.
 
Sarah;18632 said:
I'm just flabberghasted at the notion that anyone would suggest they're being punished for NOT going to a game day.

Frankly, if someone is too immature to realize that their decisions have consequences (good, bad, or indifferent), then they probably need to stop playing. They aren't ready for games like NERO.

I definitely understand your being confused regarding why anyone would consider it to be punishment, but that just leads to a great idea to ask what people mean when they say they consider it punishment. For that I'm hoping Marc will chime in because he's usually pretty good at explaining that kind of complex thought pattern.

I will say that insinuating that someone is immature or infantile is definitely not the best way to get them to converse constructively on the topic in such a way that mutual understanding (if not agreement) will occur.

I would further suggest that the fact that the people you are referring to do play the game, and in fact run it and have done so for upwards of 10+ years then they probably have some very good reasons for why they do play and why they have the opinions they do.

Again, I appreciate that you are sharing your opinions even if we don't see eye to eye on everything.
 
I'm not confused on why someone would see it as punishment. I'm simply floored that anyone *could*. There really isn't anyway to convince me that people who see it as punishment NOT to go to a game day are doing anything other than trying to blame someone else.
 
THAT DOES IT!!!


For the last time, people, Miller light is both LESS FILLING and IT TASTES GREAT TOO!

Oh wait, that wasn't what you were talking about? Sure sounded like it there for a minute. My bad. Carry on.
 
Sarah I believe how someone might see it as punnishing is:

If to get involved in a plot you had to go to a game day. However people that come from say 100+ miles away would have to spend a large amount of time driving and a decent sum of money on gas. There fore it is not possible or practical for them to go to gamedays. Or they have work that weekend and can't go. Of course this is also assuming that you need to go to a gameday to get involved in plot. I believe what was being said is that it would be unfair if the only way to get into a plots was to go to gamedays. Now that is not the case and the game is not run like that. People may get an advantage if they go to a gameday. However by no means does that mean they can be the only ones in the plot nor does that mean that they will be involved in the plot. It just simply gives them an advantage, but by no means a great one.

Thats how I believe people could see it as unfair. There is nothing unfair in the way Oregon or Seattle run their gamedays because as I stated the advantage that is gained is not a great one.
 
Things that make ya go hmmmm....

I have always wondered about the logistical and tactical value of gamedays, from a financial standpoint they never really held too much water. A good event should clear plenty of money at $50-$75 a head. The cost involved in gamedays usually didn't come from monetary amounts, but from the amount of effort and drain it had on staff. In my honest opinion, chapters that consistently run a game every other month brought in higher quality games and recruited players faster (bare in mind, that a 100 person event with 60 players at $60 a head should clear $1k an event or more). NERO has never been ran that aggressively, but that has always been a matter of staff and player burn-out. Numerous "low karma" game days don't encourage repeat business. Awesome "A++" events that blow your mind hook you everytime.

I think the real damage done is simple over-exhaustion from a creative standpoint. Too many times I've been to game days for an hour or two to check things out, consider playing, and walked away. You can pretty much tell if a gameday (or an event mod) is going to be a good one based upon the energy level and enthusiam. Side note- I haven't bothered saying howdy at any recent NERO Seattle gamedays since the fall simply because I have more important career things to do. I can't say if the karmic energy has changed more recently.

I could care less about the overall immersive values- there are a lot of detractors both at game days and events that people really slack off on and I sometimes fall myself sucked into.

Because of the "lack of energy" at gamedays, they usually end up running a 1-3 hour mod that takes up 5-7 hours of my time. Its a waste of time for me, and I'm assuming its a waste of time for many other people who don't show. For those who do show up for a game day, its usually because they have nothing better to do.

From a strategic perspective, I would really urge staff and players to think about how many A++ quality games they can hold every two months. Unless there is a miracle recruiting campaign I'm unaware of lately, trying to do more games without first getting a constant "A" level game running is only a magnifier to faster and faster burnout for everyone involved.

From a character perspective, I don't like playing at gamedays since my character's team level usually throws the group out of whack. I'd be happier to run in a high-level mod day if they were advertised as such before hand, otherwise I just feel sorry for all the 10th and under characters who get forced through a high-level meat grinder designed for 10+ year old characters.

I think the most important aspect of gamedays actually isn't for players myself... it is for staff to experiment with different ways of training monster NPCs and using plot hooks. For new players, game days can be a good way for PC and NPC alike to learn basic skills.

I use the term basic, as like JP somewhat said - there are a variety of "long term" skills and experiences you must have at events before you get to be a good player. A lot of the players I have seen frustrated at events for the past 15 years is when they keep trying to utilize game day ideas at event games. At the last event I was at, I think this thinking krept back into monster camp and was destabilizing some of the weekend long interactions and conflicts.

I'm guessing by the staff level of NERO Seattle that running frequent game days is just draining everyone involved whether or not they admit it. I would prefer to see them "save it" for an awesome event. If they think there is a money point, I would rather pay $100 for an awesome weekend event instead of $100 for five questionable game days and a mediocre event. (I'm not saying what the overall quality of the game days or events currently is, merely that less of them would probably indicate higher quality)

I do not waste weekend time with my family and friends to play NERO unless I'm assured of having a *great* time. When I show up for an event, I'm assuming that it will be an awesome weekend. Due to numbers, I can usually find at least 10-15 people who make it a great weekend. At game days however, 5-6 "fuddy duddies" ruin the atmosphere for everyone. All it takes is one grumpy complainer and you get stuck in a game day mod with no way to remove yourself from the group (except walking off the mod), which leaves you sitting at the picnic table and pondering life.

With that said, I don't plan on attending any game days unless I hear from people how excited and happy they are to be there. I hear this energy prior to events I go to... and remarkably it sucks in people. I don't know how many times I've pulled in a few friends to an event because I'm happy and excited about going.

On the flip side... over the past two years I've heard too much random negativity both here on the forum and in person when I said hello to people to believe they are enthusiastic about having a great time.

Without the "happy to be here" motivation, the game suffers IMHO.

~Barry
 
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