I feel like this would just lead to more doubletapping of fighters, ie sleep, reduced, death/eviscerate/terminate since the death is completely unavoidable at that point. That is what happens to a lot of NPCs who can rip free from a Confine right now. Also, would this allow the reduction of time for Corrupt?<note: the following is Bryan's personal question/opinion and is not representative of ARC>
To help with the concerns about Fighters being weak to takeouts, but also trying to respect the class balance issues, how do people feel that a "reduce duration of bad stuff" skill would help address these specific concerns? This is independent of any Flurry/Paragon/MI/etc. thoughts.
For example, something like:
"Shrug It Off"
Fighter: 3 BP, Scholar 6 BP, others balanced between as appropriate
Prereq: Purchaseable once for every 25 BP spent on Fighting Skills
A character can use this ability when struck with a 10-minute or Line Of Sight duration effect. When used, the character calls "Reduced" and counts the effect as a 10-second duration instead of 10-minute or Line Of Sight.
This wouldn't stop damage (Fighters already have body/armor/Hearty/Fast Refit/Resolute against that), but would hugely mitigate the "sleep/confine/drain/enfeeble/etc. takes me out in one hit" issues *without* making them useless (like a Resist/Spell Parry/Dodge would do). It also strongly encourages teamwork and fighting together (someone needs to step up and hold the line while you're shaking it off for 10 seconds) which is thematic with the Owner intent for 2.0. A Fighter standing alone shouldn't be able to ignore a barrage of takeouts, just like a Scholar standing alone shouldn't be able to ignore a barrage of static weapon swings; but in both cases teamwork can help in these situations.
Or, to put it another way, "lets takeout effects still be useful without boning the Fighter who has no other defenses against it".
Thoughts? Would this satisfy folks' concerns without making yet another "nope, your ability is wasted for the day!" ability?
</note>
<note: the following is Bryan's personal question/opinion and is not representative of ARC>
To help with the concerns about Fighters being weak to takeouts, but also trying to respect the class balance issues, how do people feel that a "reduce duration of bad stuff" skill would help address these specific concerns? This is independent of any Flurry/Paragon/MI/etc. thoughts.
For example, something like:
"Shrug It Off"
Fighter: 3 BP, Scholar 6 BP, others balanced between as appropriate
Prereq: Purchaseable once for every 25 BP spent on Fighting Skills
A character can use this ability when struck with a 10-minute or Line Of Sight duration effect. When used, the character calls "Reduced" and counts the effect as a 10-second duration instead of 10-minute or Line Of Sight.
This wouldn't stop damage (Fighters already have body/armor/Hearty/Fast Refit/Resolute against that), but would hugely mitigate the "sleep/confine/drain/enfeeble/etc. takes me out in one hit" issues *without* making them useless (like a Resist/Spell Parry/Dodge would do). It also strongly encourages teamwork and fighting together (someone needs to step up and hold the line while you're shaking it off for 10 seconds) which is thematic with the Owner intent for 2.0. A Fighter standing alone shouldn't be able to ignore a barrage of takeouts, just like a Scholar standing alone shouldn't be able to ignore a barrage of static weapon swings; but in both cases teamwork can help in these situations.
Or, to put it another way, "lets takeout effects still be useful without boning the Fighter who has no other defenses against it".
Thoughts? Would this satisfy folks' concerns without making yet another "nope, your ability is wasted for the day!" ability?
</note>
Giving fighters a limited number of resist magic effects still wouldn't make the matchup "good" against scholars.
Overall Fighters need significantly more battlefield utility thanthey currwntly havr because they dont have off the field utility other classes have (Formal Magic) [scholars] (Legerdamain) [Rogues]
I've been playing a fighter since start. I've never moved into rogue skills. Not a single test build that I've created for this rules set has included any rogue skills. The whole point is there should be no reason to go to rogue skills if you don't want rogue skills. Yes, the fluid setup allows it, that doesn't mean I should HAVE TO work that into my build. If I HAVE out of the fighter skills and buy rogue skills just to make the fighter skills work, then there's something wrong with the fighter setup! Yes, I can drop some disarms or whatever else and pick up some waylay and then a dodge, but the whole point is I shouldn't have to do that to be able to make it as a fighter.With the rules as written in 0.8 and 0.9, every Fighter build I've seen created by myself and others has one, if not multiple, dodges factored in. The availability and overall superiority of the skill ensures its place in a character build, with current rules. As Stun Limb is a "rogue ability" but also a fighter ability, you'll see more and more activity like this, with the as-written abilities pushing Fighters closer to Scout in XP-spends due to the numerous failings of "fighter abilities" and superiority of practically any other class ability.
In short: While Rogues may have the most Dodges, anyone who isn't a scholar will likely be working it into their character-builds, I suspect. This speaks volumes to the balancing issues of defensive abilities.
Ultimately, I feel this is the point that a lot of the discussion regarding the state-of-Fighters, and even the state-of-melee (Not excluding Archers, but its confusing to keep going between classes, melee, martial, etc.). To survive, not even break-even, but to simply attempt survival in the rules-as-presented, you have to figure out new and creative ways to cross-class abilities....but the whole point is I shouldn't have to do that to be able to make it as a fighter.
There's a way for Warsmith to make a spell parry weapon, but that's a level 5 paragon path ability, is limited to only 1 weapon per day, and warsmith sucks.
Again, my comment was more of a "hey btw", not a "well this is in this path so you might as well go that way to get that."Going back to/referencing Paragon Paths, with that in mind, isn't fair to any system in any capacity, in my mind. They're hardly able to be tested, if at all, much less used as "this base ability should function this way".
Which is why I've been avoiding themFor the purposes of this discussion, as it focus on the overall class experience, it is probably best to omit things like Paragons and magic items when it comes to balance and survivability. If the class is flawed, then corrections need to be made to the base class. Supplements such as Paragons and magic items require years of play to obtain, and are particularly inaccessible to lower level players, a demographic for whom many of these core class skill tree changes would be critically important.