Corrupt - Is this ready for use?

[Saephis]

You want to make Chaos more tempting, and more deadly? Even basic changes like this to Create Undead will do that. No battle's been swung by a 10-body 2-damage Skeleton.

 

[Alkalin3]

I see the "10 minutes with no extensions", but if the effect ends and they revert to a dead body again counting down to resurrect, you could in theory cast Create Undead again. Unless exception rules are added "Only affects a body once after the character has entered the 'Dead' state. After which the character must receive a Life and then enter the 'Dead' state again before being a viable target for Create Undead." But, that seems counter to the intent of reducing exceptions. Also, I kind of like the idea of Necromancy artificially extending the death count ... using Necromantic Energy to keep the body sustained for a bit longer seems thematically appropriate.

I think the fact that we're talking about if we need an exception means we're on the right path to making this better.

You were head of plot for a while. Would you have a problem with someone using necromancy to extend a death count to 30 minutes? Risking in game that they get caught?

I for one would not.

I also think if you're the guy created, and you realize what happens. It puts you in an interesting moral dilemma as the player created. 2 people need to keep quiet about it.

 

[Samyania]

Especially since necromancers are also healers. Saving your friends is so much more tempting than destroying your enemies. Just look at Anakin.

 

[Alavatar]

You were head of plot for a while.

You may be confusing me with @Avaran. It happens in person sometimes as well. While I have been on plot teams I have never been Head of Plot.

Would you have a problem with someone using necromancy to extend a death count to 30 minutes? Risking in game that they get caught?

I for one would not.

I also think if you're the guy created, and you realize what happens. It puts you in an interesting moral dilemma as the player created. 2 people need to keep quiet about it.

I would not have any problem with it. Depending on the people it would be a big risk. Although I do know of some teams that are remarkably efficient at not getting caught with their Necromancy.

 

[Alkalin3]

My mistake similar forum handles. I apologize. Your opinion is still important though haha.

 

[Alavatar]

Thinking about it more I do not like the full heal AND pausing the death timer mostly because of NPC use. I think A number of restored Body, like maybe 50, would be better.

 

[Alkalin3]

Ultimately you still need a life spell to save someone. You can get lifed, and killed, and lifed and killed, and already functionally have a large death timer. This just makes necromancy a cheaper option to keeping your friends alive, then already exists. Hence it's tempting.

 

[Gilwing]

I think that is the intent. The "places back to its original..." was mostly to ensure that the PCs death timer was set back to whatever it was before the Corrupt hit. We did not want a PC to have to worry about tracking multiple timers, especially their Death timer. For sure we need to clean up the wording on Corrupt..

To answer some questions that have been raised:

You can be Dead, with a death timer going. You can be Undead, with a death timer going.

-Bryan

Sooooo where in the Corrupt spell does it say that your death count stops? You know that 1.3 create undead, you're death count doesn't stop.

 

[Avaran]

Sooooo where in the Corrupt spell does it say that your death count stops? You know that 1.3 create undead, you're death count doesn't stop.

It doesn't, not directly. However, note the bold parts below and I could see where it could be confusing.

If the creature is reduced to zero Body Points, or the spell duration expires, then the body and the spirit return to the condition they would have been in had the Corrupt not affected them. This means that if during the five minute Death Countdown the creature is reduced to 0 Body Points and then given a Life spell, they will reawaken alive but with no knowledge of their time spent as Undead.

The duration of the spell is 10 minutes.

Death timer is 5 minutes.

But then the very next line says "if during the Death countdown". Maybe there was come copy/pasting that took place that was unintentional?

 

[Saephis]

But then the very next line says "if during the Death countdown". Maybe there was come copy/pasting that took place that was unintentional?

Other than @mythic , every person of authority that I've asked about regarding the death count while Greater-Lesser-Medium Undead Corrupt has had your death counter running.

 

[Avaran]

Other than @mythic , every person of authority that I've asked about regarding the death count while Greater-Lesser-Medium Undead Corrupt has had your death counter running.

If that is the intention, they should add something like: "If the death timer expires and the victim hasn't received a Life spell, they will resurrect after the 10-minute duration of the spell, or when reduced to 0 or fewer body, whichever comes first."

Cause it's a Death spell on steroids. If that isn't the case, then it's a 15-minute Death timer. Which seems unintentional.

 

[Saephis]

Thus why my question was "As Written, Is Corrupt Ready?"

With a scant 5 "Yes"s and 31 "No"s, I'd say, well, no.

 

[mythic]

@Saephis I can double check, but I'm more than positive that we discussed this as owners and we did not want players tracking multiple timers (when it came to hitting the rez circle if something was missed). @Polare can you confirm this?

Otherwise, we concluded, that having to keep track of your death timer, while then having to keep track of the Corrupt timer, while fighting/defending etc. was way too much to put on any player.

 

[Avaran]

The first 5 minutes are the same for both timers, then it's another 5-minutes to countdown your Corrupt timer. How is that different than counting for 10 minutes, and then counting for 5 minutes apart from the first timer being 10 minutes?

Also: What is the "penalty" for ignoring a Corrupt target? If you just walk away for ten minutes...since they revert back to their state before hit with Corrupt....does that mean they aren't Dead any more and can just go about their day?

Create Undead has the same wording, but Create Undead can only be cast on Dead bodies. Therefore, reverting back to the state you were in before cast would be a Dead body with a Death timer.

But since Corrupt can be cast on someone who is Alive....and you revert back...that means you revert back to being Alive.

If the creature is reduced to zero Body Points, or the spell duration expires, then the body and the spirit return to the condition they would have been in had the Corrupt not affected them. This means that if during the five minute Death Countdown the creature is reduced to 0 Body Points and then given a Life spell, they will reawaken alive but with no knowledge of their time spent as Undead.

If it works the way that @mythic is explaining....there's no Death timer even though it says there is, and there's no penalty for just waiting out the 10 minutes since the state I would be in "had the Corrupt not affected" me would be Alive and well. Can that be right?!?

And if there is a Timer, and it means you just revert to "dead body on the ground" -- which is NOT the state I would be in had I been hit with it were I alive -- that means it starts after the 10-minute duration, making Corrupt is a 15-minute death/res timer.

 

[Tantarus]

I would be shocked if it paused your death timer. I assume it is just poorly worded but works the same as Create Undead functionally.

 

[Tantarus]

This means that if during the five minute Death Countdown the creature is reduced to 0 Body Points and then given a Life spell, they will reawaken alive but with no knowledge of their time spent as Undead.

This part of the description of corrupt clearly shows your death timer does count down. How is this even a debate? The spell clearly shows your death timer is running.

 

[Avaran]

This part of the description of corrupt clearly shows your death timer does count down. How is this even a debate? The spell clearly shows your death timer is running.

The Death Timer would run if it were cast on you while you were Dead (it is castable on a dead body).

However, as I stated above, if you are hit with Corrupt while Alive, you don't have a Death Timer already going, therefore you don't need to track one. Just the 10-minute effect duration.

So...

If Dead: Track Death timer.
If Corrupt while Dead body: Track Death Timer and 10-minute Timer.
If brought to 0 before Death timer, Revert to Dead Body, Life Spell can fix if applied before death timer runs out.
If duration runs out, death timer expired, go res.

If Alive: No Death Timer.
If Corrupt while Alive with positive HP: No Death timer, track 10-minute duration.
If brought to 0 before 10-minute Duration, Revert to Alive with positive HP.
If 10-minute duration expires, Revert to Alive with positive HP.

Is that how it works @Polare ? @mythic

I think it is wonky because it seems like it should work differently on Alive things versus Dead things, which is very different from other spells of this sort (i.e. Create Undead).

 

[Tantarus]

It makes you dead and starts your res timer, then reanimates you etc. I am sure it is intended that it works functionally like create undead does when it comes to ressing/life spells and such.

 

[Avaran]

It makes you dead and starts your res timer, then reanimates you etc. I am sure it is intended that it works functionally like create undead does when it comes to ressing/life spells and such.

That may be true, but that isn't what it says.

The problem is that you can cast it on someone who is Alive, and they REVERT BACK TO THAT STATE once the spell runs out. Create Undead can only be cast on a Dead Body, so having a res timer makes sense. Because you're dead first and then revert back to being dead. There's no res timer if I am Alive.

Had I not been affected by that Corrupt effect, I would be Alive.

Had I not been affected by that Create Undead effect, I would be Dead.

 

[Gilwing]

The first 5 minutes are the same for both timers, then it's another 5-minutes to countdown your Corrupt timer. How is that different than counting for 10 minutes, and then counting for 5 minutes apart from the first timer being 10 minutes?

Also: What is the "penalty" for ignoring a Corrupt target? If you just walk away for ten minutes...since they revert back to their state before hit with Corrupt....does that mean they aren't Dead any more and can just go about their day?

Create Undead has the same wording, but Create Undead can only be cast on Dead bodies. Therefore, reverting back to the state you were in before cast would be a Dead body with a Death timer.

But since Corrupt can be cast on someone who is Alive....and you revert back...that means you revert back to being Alive.



If it works the way that @mythic is explaining....there's no Death timer even though it says there is, and there's no penalty for just waiting out the 10 minutes since the state I would be in "had the Corrupt not affected" me would be Alive and well. Can that be right?!?

And if there is a Timer, and it means you just revert to "dead body on the ground" -- which is NOT the state I would be in had I been hit with it were I alive -- that means it starts after the 10-minute duration, making Corrupt is a 15-minute death/res timer.

I asked this in post #66 & 68 https://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/corrupt-is-this-ready-for-use.35233/page-4#post-282239 as well as here https://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/asking-for-clarifications.33382/#post-270111 which was in September, I'm also waiting for a response. I also put this is my Play test feed back form.