[0.9] Paragon Paths

Tulbor

Artisan
@Sage of Legaia I only say that it's written as a Fighter Blacksmith setup because I'm a Fighter Blacksmith and when I saw this originally I went "Awesome! that's exactly my character!" and then followed it up with "oh wait, i can't do **** with this" after seeing the reqs
 
I assume all of the references to XP in prereqs are actually meant to be Build Points, considering we have thousands of XP when at a 150 build? Just need to comment on it because it's making my eye twitch.
 

Tulbor

Artisan
I assume all of the references to XP in prereqs are actually meant to be Build Points, considering we have thousands of XP when at a 150 build? Just need to comment on it because it's making my eye twitch.
Yeah that's what I figured
 

Durnic

Knight
I assume all of the references to XP in prereqs are actually meant to be Build Points, considering we have thousands of XP when at a 150 build? Just need to comment on it because it's making my eye twitch.
As I stated in the other thread, yes. BP (Build Points) are being replaced with XP since it is more colloquially known to roleplayers. No more being confused between BP and BP. :p
 

Ragnarok

Scout
Marshal
I'm really hoping this post doesn't echo or repeat something already said but there's a lot of material here.

I personally like this addition to the play test rules. I think it's something a lot of players have been looking for in this game and helps weed out wonky LCO PCs at higher levels. These mirror things I've seen in Chicago and have heard of in other Midwest chapters but brings these power fantasies into line in a more balanced way. For example I've been waiting forever to find a way to berserk my PC and gain benefits from it. I'm also sure that there are a lot of crafting based characters that, even with support from there local plot team, have been dieing to find better ways to contribute to combat.

That being said I do have concerns with the number of ways PCs may expend abilities in alternate ways giving the illusion of having a ridiculous amount of a single skill on their card without clearly indicating what they are doing since most of the ways these abilities are used (to my understanding) are by simply calling the other ability. For instance a scout unveiling a constant barrage of evades or parries with when in fact they've used a dodge to fuel their evades or are using evades to fuel their parries. (I don't think this is actually possible but serves as an example)

Really my concern is just a lack of vocalization of what is happening and potential confusion that can arise because of it.

I also have a question regarding multiple carriers with this rules addition. Through both the Raging Blow ritual and the Ravager paragon path, is it possible to unleash a massive body slay?

-Sid P
 

Avaran

Baron
Paragon Path build doesn't help Wand charges/damage, doesn't qualify you for that next Eviscerate or Dodge, and doesn't allow you to build your spell pyramid outwards.
Very true.

But some of them give 1/day abilities. One of those abilities given out is "Phase" which is distinctly better than "Dodge" (which are also given out as a level 5 ability). They give out Riposte 1/day (Skirmisher), Eviscerate 1/day, Body Terminate 1/day, etc. And that's not counting the passives.

I'd also like to point out that at high enough expenditures, especially for melee characters, it is impractical to spend build on "another prof" or "another backstab", and these Paragon Paths give significantly more value than that additional prof/BS, especially after 8+ profs (or Backstabs). I mean, I was seriously considering what other class I wanted to build into and waste build because I don't want any of the new Fighter abilities.

I don't find most of the new Melee abilities all that exciting or good for high-level scenarios - imho it's still better to get lots of current stuff, reach that ceiling, and then go into these. At least I won't have to start buying off-class stuff now because there's no more Fighter things to buy. At least until this ceiling is hit and then I'm just wasting build at that point.

I am apparently in the minority because I have a character with more than 400 build, but I can't help but feel bad when I'm sitting here trying to figure out if I want to also buy Rogue skills or some spells. Or be a spell caster out-right because they get more value with spell trees, have no cap, and pay the same build for each spell at their respective levels. i.e. I pay the same build for my first 9th (five build) as I do for my 15th ninth level spell (still 5 build to buy that individual spell slot). And I can't say I care about Wand damage because with the Flurry rules, I don't think I'd be throwing many packets anyway, and certainly not effective ones.

That said, some of these abilities are atrociously strong.

Are NPC's going to be limited to only one? MAYBE at first, but then someone is going to get the bright idea for a villain that "breaks the rules" and has more than 1 because <plot reasons> and then things are going to get really....confusing...to say the least. Since, ya know, Plots can do what they want with Character cards. Or is that changing?
 
Last edited:
@Sage of LegaiaI only say that it's written as a Fighter Blacksmith setup because I'm a Fighter Blacksmith and when I saw this originally I went "Awesome! that's exactly my character!" and then followed it up with "oh wait, i can't do **** with this" after seeing the reqs
I feel like with a few tweaks to the ability roster it could be super viable for a Fighter Blacksmith, but as written it's just... not. I'm super interested in anything you think would make it better in that regard, but since I play a Potion maker and Alchemist, I am WAY too far out of my depth to feel comfortable making suggestions myself.

I will, however, happy theorycraft for hours using whatever you suggest and see if we can make it more equally viable for Blacksmiths and Alchemists. :D
 

Banradi

Adept
South Michigan Staff
But some of them give 1/day abilities. One of those abilities given out is "Phase" which is distinctly better than "Dodge" (which are also given out as a level 5 ability).
Is phase still better than dodge? I've heard stories in the past that one of the biggest benefits of being able to phase was getting out being killing blowed in a prison (Killing Blow 1. 2. 3. Prison Down. PHASE), but that you can no longer do that today.

My understanding is also that you can't phase traps going off or things you ingest, just like a dodge (Side Note: A few of the paths say that they can specifically phase traps as part of the path), meaning it's more just an important flavor type than anything else.

I've got a few more/substantial thoughts, but want to compile it a bit more and type up a better worded post. This was just a quick question going off of what's already being discussed. :)
 

KyleSchmelz

Fighter
Phase can be used against traps, voice radius effects, and other area effects that Dodge can't avoid.
 

Avaran

Baron
Is phase still better than dodge? I've heard stories in the past that one of the biggest benefits of being able to phase was getting out being killing blowed in a prison (Killing Blow 1. 2. 3. Prison Down. PHASE), but that you can no longer do that today.
Another reason why Phase is better than Dodge, is that you can Phase while under the effects of a Web/Confine/Etc.

It is currently NPC-only (some of the old Golems you could Spirit Store into has 6x Phase/day).

There was also one that gave PC's the Greater Spell Store ritual against a specific school of magic. That one blows my mind.
 
Last edited:

AlikVanmil

Newbie
A Specific "nit pick" of the Warsmith tier 2 ability:

"After completion of a successful Refit on another character, the Warsmith may instantly Meditate a single skill she would otherwise be able to Meditate."

While an interesting ability, it is more or less useless for an Artisan to have since they generally won't have any valid targets that could be meditated. I mean I see the direction whom ever wrote this section was shooting for. But since Meditatible rogue/fighting skills (assassinate/terminate/eviscerate/slay/disarm/shatter) cost so much XP(BP) for artisans to have - many Artisans won't ever take them as their points would be better placed elsewhere, aside from the maybe one that they would need to activate their "Body Shots" which can not be meditated back. So in short - not a great skill, maybe consider replacing it with the skill the other artisan paths have where they can use interchangeable workshops.
 

Tulbor

Artisan
A Specific "nit pick" of the Warsmith tier 2 ability:

"After completion of a successful Refit on another character, the Warsmith may instantly Meditate a single skill she would otherwise be able to Meditate."

While an interesting ability, it is more or less useless for an Artisan to have since they generally won't have any valid targets that could be meditated. I mean I see the direction whom ever wrote this section was shooting for. But since Meditatible rogue/fighting skills (assassinate/terminate/eviscerate/slay/disarm/shatter) cost so much XP(BP) for artisans to have - many Artisans won't ever take them as their points would be better placed elsewhere, aside from the maybe one that they would need to activate their "Body Shots" which can not be meditated back. So in short - not a great skill, maybe consider replacing it with the skill the other artisan paths have where they can use interchangeable workshops.
Because this shouldn't be artisan.

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
 

Alex319

Artisan
Overview



The Paragon Paths as they stand now appear to not be even close to ready for prime time. There are several serious balance issues with almost all of them. I will talk about some of the general issues and then go into specifics on each one.



Major Issues



Undercosting: For most levels of most Paragon Paths, the daily abilities alone would cost about 5-10 XP were you to buy them separately. Thus, you are only in effect paying 0-5 XP for the passive and active abilities of the level. This is a very low amount to pay, especially given the power of the Paragon Path abilities.



Unlimited on-the-fly resource swapping: Many Paragon Path abilities allow one resource to be used as another resource an unlimited number of times per day. For instance, Champion of the Living L4 allows any per-day fighting skill (e.g. a CA) to be used as a Purify. Often using the “swapped” ability is even more XP-efficient than the class that normally has that ability using it directly. For instance, a CA only costs 3 XP, but it can be used as a Purify which even for a dedicated earth scholar costs 4 XP. And, more importantly, if a scholar memorizes a Purify and ends up not needing it then it is “wasted”, while if a Champion has a CA that he doesn't need to use as a Purify, then he can always use it as a CA. Thus, if Champions were common, there would be almost no need for anyone to actually memorize Purifies – it's a lot more efficient for Champions to use their CA's as Purifies. Normally things that allow you to swap out resources are limited use and/or have a significant cost (e.g. Spell Swap; you have to spend a ritual charge, a Ritual Use point, and 10 seconds of focus) – while here you get to swap the resource out instantly at effectively negative cost. (And as you'll see the Champion's ability isn't even close to being the most powerful one.) There's so many of these I won't call them out one by one below, except for the most egregious ones.



Unfamiliar calls: Some of the Paragon Paths allow for “splicing” effects/qualifiers/deliveries onto other attacks to produce calls which are difficult or impossible to produce any other way. For instance, using the Assassin's L2 power to add Poison and L4 power to change it to Elemental, you can be swinging for “10 Elemental” - that's a very weird call; I don't think there's anything else in the game that swings for Elemental (you can normally throw Elemental, but not swing it.) Even if the rules related to such a swing are clearly defined, more players don't have all the rules memorized and might take a while to figure out what it does, if it's not something they are familiar with from before – you probably don't want this kind of confusion in a fight.



Getting abilities that were removed from the game: As other posters have mentioned, a lot of the Paragon Paths allow for getting abilities such as monster strength and innate reflect magic. As these were abilities that were originally gotten through Master Constructs, and these made Master Constructs so broken they needed to be removed from the game, I am surprised to see them return.



Specific Classes



Auraknife L3-4: Ability to absorb other skills could potentially be broken if you were to, for instance, Charm/Dominate/etc an enemy rogue or mage and force him to transfer lots of spells to you, Also potential for poor player dynamics: the optimal strategy for a group may be to have all the low level rogues/mages operate as “batteries” and transfer their stuff to a high-level Auraknife so the Aurankife can kill all the monsters, but this probably won't be fun for the low level players.



Auraknife L5: So, this basically turns all your Assassinates into Terminates (except that they're guarded against by different things). So it triples the number of Terminates you have available, and also saves you XP to boot. For an Adept wth three Assassinates (the minium to get this) you're getting 21 XP worth of stuff (6 XP dodge, 3 XP 5th level slot, 12 XP for turning two 2-XP Assassinates into 6-XP Terminates) for only 10 XP.



Assassin L1-L4: All this qualifier switching is very likely to confuse players, because it's highly unusual to be swinging for “# Poison” or “# Elemental” (I assume you can use these two together) to change a weapon swing to elemental. Someone not highly familiar with the details of the rules may not know what to do if they get hit with a “50 Elemental Assassinate” from behind, since you almost never see Elemental called on a weapon swing. It's also unclear as to what the advantage of changing a weapon swing to Poison is (since it's blocked by the same stuff as a physical attack, plus some more stuff like poison shield) except that you get to heal 5 off the L1 passive and you could potential change it again to elemental with the L4 passive (is that the point of that? Is the point of the Elemental attack that hitting a shield still counts? Is that how it works? I am not sure I understand the point here.)



Assassin L5: Poison Corrupt? That's a pretty darn powerful spell, that you don't have to have any spell levels to get. I think this is the only way to get a Corrupt that doesn't involve actually having spell slots.



Champion of the Living L4: For the passive: if you activate a batch of 10 CA's, does this trigger 10 times (thus healing you for 50)?



Defender L2: This makes Defenders far better at casting binds than actual scholars are. A scholar needs a 3rd level spell slot to cast a Bind, but a Defender can spellstrike three Binds and then get healed by that same first level spell slot.



Defender L3: This again seems extremely powerful especially since most NPCs don't wear armor so the carrier will probably land as soon as the first hit lands. It seems pretty easy for a Defender to just go down a lime of enemies and drop Weakness on all of them. A small price to pay - the same amount that a scholar would need to buy a mere two Weakness spell slots – for the ability to put Weakness on lots of enemies.



Defender L5: This seems pretty busted. Basically it turns a 5-XP Eviscerate into effectively a 2-XP “Resolute effect” plus probably 100-200 points of healing – which itself would cost around 10-15 XP if a healer was getting that healing from spell slots. So even a single activation of this per adventuring day more than pays for itself, and at this high level you will have at least three Eviscerates. And that's not even counting the monster ability you get.



Disabler L1: Probably this will cause confusion in battle, as using Intoxicate in combat is currently extremely rare, and it isn't actually clear how being Intoxicated affects combat (nothing specific is stated in the rulebook) so this is likely to be very subjective and dependent on the NPC being affected.



Disabler L5: It might be hard to remember which things you can resist and which you can't.



Duelist L1: If I start a CA batch, activate Chosen Foe, and kill my foe, I know I can't “end my foe selection” and get the regular CA effect back (unless I use one of the once-per-day “prematurely ends”) However, can I still start another CA batch that works normally, or am I effectively locked out of using normal CA's for the whole 10 minutes (unless I use one of the per days)?



Elementalist L5: So let me get this straight. If I have a 10-column (about what it would take to qualify for this) and a Potency, then I can empower myself with Ice, use all my 7th and 8th level evocation bolts as Ice (the Potency makes the 7th levels do 40 damage, so it's enough to trigger the ability) and basically throw 20 extra Stun Limbs, all for the low low cost of one 9th level spell slot? And what's even worse, if I want to I can deliberately miss with all the Evocation Bolt packets and only try to hit with the “free” Stun Limb packets, so that I get to Meditate the Evocation Bolt spells back (in only 1 minute for all of them, no less) and do the whole thing again, effectively getting unlimited Stun Limbs without actually expending any spell slots? At the very least you need to specify that you only get to Meditate the Evocation Bolt back if both the Evocation Bolt packet and the “free packet” miss. And also, the trigger works with any source of Elemental damage, so it might end up even more broken if combines with some other source of repeatable Elemental damage (for instance, if you can get your wand damage up to 10, you can throw gobs and gobs of free Disarms)



Healer L1: The ability to effectively turn one spell into multiple spells could easily be broken if combined with other ways to store spells. For instance, one Healer and five Auraknifes in a circle – the Heaer spends one spell and the Auraknifes get a spell back each.



Healer L4: What's the intent of the second sentence of this passive? It seems unlikely that a healer of this high level will be First Aiding friends in combat very often – healing spells are better. It seems like the most common use is to speed up Meditation outside of combat: a healer finds a willing friend (preferably one already at very few HP from the fight), takes him to -1, First Aids him in 40 seconds to meditate a spell back, hits him for 1 again and First Aids him to trigger the meditate again and so on. The RP on this seems really weird, and probably isn't the intent.



Ravager L1-L4: The drawback of the active abilities (having to debuff/harm your friends) seem very easy to circumvent by using it on characters who don't care about those effects (i.e. Weakness on non-weapon-users, Silence on non-casters, Destruction on people way in the back lines or outside of combat, 20 Arcane Body on people who are already bleeding out – and if you're not conscious then you're always willing).



Ravager L5: I'm not sure I like this ability because it turns Berserk into something you want to get. Berserk is actually a hard ability to play correctly because it requires you to attack the nearest target, and the nearest target may be behind you. (The Berserk rules don't specify how often you have to check behind you for potential closer targets.) So it seems like there is a strong incentive here to get deliberately Berserked and “fudge” things by attacking an enemy even if there is a closer ally behind you – and this is very hard to detect.



Ritualist L4: Uh, free reagents? Seems kind of broken. Basically like Conservative Casting, except there's no limits on how many times you can stack it on one ritual.



Skirmisher L1: May want to limit how long you can run for, so that if the Skirmisher is OOG faster than the person he picks up, that the Skirmisher can't just run him far enough away that the carried player doesn't know where he's supposed to go.



Skirmisher L5: A free spellcrafted Spirit Recall!? As a per-day skill that you just need to expend a Riposte for? That seems very easily abusable. I can definitely see this as having a lot of “strategic” use where the Skirmisher use it to teleport between different IG locations. This also seems like the kind of thing that's hard to test in a playtest, because te scenarios where this is broen are the scenarios when you have more people, and more ways to set up multiple circles, etc.



Skirmisher L2: The daytime passive seems way overpowered. If I have let's say 4 backstabs, then effectively this is giving me a 5th and 6th backstab, which would have cost me a total of 57 XP if I were to buy them the normal way.



Skirmisher L3: Half damage to all Normal attacks, effectively? That seems like the kind of thing that normally only monsters get.



Skirmisher L4: A particularly egregious hyperefficient resource swap: you are trading a 1st level spell slot or item (light) for a spell slot or item of up to 6th level.



Skirmisher L5: Whoa! That's a lot of Dodges!



Totemic L4: Whoa! That's a lot of Natural Armor! With a few Improved Assassinates you could get over 100 points of natural armor from this, multiple times a day.



Warden L4: More hyperefficient resource swapping: swap out 10 body points (which only costs a 2nd level spell slot to get back) for one of several spells most of which are 4th-6th level.



Warden L5: This ability seems really powerful – it seems like basically unlimited Spell Parry charges, that don 5 't require a ritual use point to use, plus it can be used on a wider variety of things the only downside is it can only be used on something that hits your friends, not yourself.



Warleader: This class is just the king of ridiculously underpriced resource swapping. Spend a measly 5 body (again, only 1 level of spell required to regain it) to cast any of several different level 4-5 spells? Spend a single Teacher skill (which only costs a measly 1 XP, no less) to hand out four or five Elemental Blades or Healing Blades, or recharge any skill in the game? Use a single Parry to make your friend immune from all non-massive weapon strikes for five seconds as long as you stand next to him?



Warsmith L2: A similar issue to Healer L4 – you just find some random guy and keep refitting his armor (you're probably a master blacksmith so it takes 30 seconds) out of combat. At least this time is better, because the RP isn't nearly as weird, and refitting armor is a lot more common in combat than first aid.
 

Polare

Count
First off, thank you for the in-depth comments! I look forward to having the opportunity to look through them in more depth.

A couple of general notes -

1. Weapon calls with alternate qualifiers are made a little differently than what you note here. For example, the Spellblade's ability changes their weapon swings to (damage amount may vary) "5 Spell Normal" or "5 Spell Silver" or whatever other carrier they have available. Other Paragon Paths who can change their qualifier would do the same thing - so "2 Elemental Normal" or "4 Poison Silver" or the like. While this is without a doubt unusual in 1.3, it's not unheard of. In fact, when a "Spellstrike Magic Storm" is used, that's basically what's happening - you're swinging "10 Spell Magic" (the 2.0 equivalent), which uses Spell targeting rules instead of Weapon. Some Plot teams have done similar calls in a limited fashion - spiky plants that throw packets for "5 Poison Normal" packets (though the order is not standardized in 1.3), or "10 Elemental Flame" as a weapon swing, etc. etc. Lastly, whenever you use a (non-Vorpal) weapon coating in 1.3, you're doing the same thing - changing the qualifier - when you swing "10 Sleep Poison"; it's just that in 2.0 we are standardizing the order so it's always "# Qualifier Effect" whereas today it's more hodgepodge.

We expect different combinations of qualifiers and deliveries (i.e. "Poison" or "Elemental" or "Spell" on weapons) to be somewhat more common in 2.0 than they are now. They do exist in 1.3, and are used more than you might think (Spellstrikes and Weapon coatings are the most obvious), they're just not standardized very well. It's a paradigm shift that we believe players will get used to pretty quickly, and will be much easier to pick up when it's standardized.

2. I suspect you may be underestimating the opportunity cost to taking a Paragon Path. 50 Build qualifies you for a lot of options if you spend it in Fighting Skills or Rogue Skills. It grants you +1 Wand Damage and 13 packets if you spend it in Celestial skills. No matter which school you buy spells in, it qualifies you for more spell slots - especially those all-important 9th level ones - than any Paragon path does.

Additionally, a Paragon Path is by nature more specialized. Sure, you might be able to do something cool that someone else can't - that's the point! But you lose out on the more generalist nature of the core skills. A Champion of the Living can churn out more against Undead than a standard Earth Templar. On the other hand, if you don't face Undead, the generalist Earth Templare is almost always going to come out more efficient. They can change their memorization on the fly where the Champion's build expenditures are "stuck" in the Paragon Path. A non-Paragon Fighter can pick a lot more general utility stuff than a Paragon Path Fighter might - maybe they want to strike a balance between Stun Limbs and Parries that no Path offers, for instance. 50 Build goes a long ways towards filling out a tree in all sorts of directions; a Path is set in stone from the beginning and you lose a lot of personal flexibility with that build expenditure.

Paragon Paths need to take this into account. If a Paragon Path gave you 10 Build worth of Fighting skills, it would straight-up be *significantly* worse than just buying those skills, because it doesn't qualify you for more Slays/Parries/Ripostes/etc., which would then further give more points in that category and so forth. Similarly, a Path that gives an extra 1st through 5th level spell slot is straight up worse than just buying those same slots for the same cost, since you can't build on top of them to the (much better) spells at the top of the tree.

Whenever ARC built out sample characters, this opportunity cost ended up being more than we expected at first. I encourage you to do the same, and compare two characters of equal level - one who takes 5 Paragon Path tiers and one who doesn't - with a roughly similar "goal" ("lots of fighting skills", "tanking as much as possible", "throwing tons of spells", etc. etc.). As much as possible before Playtesting, we tried to make it so that what you get is roughly equal to what you're giving up, but not significantly unbalanced either way. I'm not saying it's perfect - far from it! - but we feel it's in a state where it needs Playtesting to flesh out further issues.

Hope this helps explain some of the thinking that went into these decisions.

Thanks,
Bryan Gregory
ARC Chair
 

Shades

Newbie
"If a Paragon Path gave you 10 Build worth of Fighting skills, it would straight-up be *significantly* worse than just buying those skills"
This raises and interesting question to me about how much worse you would consider these when evaluating Paragon Paths.
What level of fighting skills would a Paragon Path have to grant to be worth 10 build of regular fighting skills? Does this vary by class? Does it vary by level? I am interested to hear what people think.

David K
(Maven)
 

Tantarus

Knight
I suspect you may be underestimating the opportunity cost to taking a Paragon Path. 50 Build qualifies you for a lot of options if you spend it in Fighting Skills or Rogue Skills. It grants you +1 Wand Damage and 13 packets if you spend it in Celestial skills. No matter which school you buy spells in, it qualifies you for more spell slots - especially those all-important 9th level ones - than any Paragon path does.
So I would argue for a high level fighter or rogue the cost is pretty low, about the cost of a prof at higher levels, as these classes scale very poorly now. And the higher level you are the less the 50 build means. Where as Casters scale perfectly from level 1 to level 100.

All these paragon powers for dropping your damage down by 1 seems like a very good trade off.
 

Avaran

Baron
So I would argue for a high level fighter or rogue the cost is pretty low, about the cost of a prof at higher levels, as these classes scale very poorly now. And the higher level you are the less the 50 build means. Where as Casters scale perfectly from level 1 to level 100.

All these paragon powers for dropping your damage down by 1 seems like a very good trade off.
Andy said it pretty well.

At 370-375 build (give or take), I have all of the Fighter skills that I want and I am unable to get more without spending a stupid amount of build in another prof. I don't want to buy 25 Disarms. I don't want to buy 25 Intercepts. I don't want to buy 10 Resolutes, nor any combination thereof (having that many Disarms generally leads to Immune monsters, Claws, lots of defenses, or some combination thereof).

Also: Some of the Paths grant skills at the various levels that would cost an arm and leg to get with normal build, making them highly efficient build sinks.

For me, a Paragon Path is a must/will buy.
 
Last edited:

Muir

Fighter
Also: Some of the Paths grant skills at the various levels that would cost an arm and leg to get with normal build, making them highly efficient build sinks.

For me, a Paragon Path is a must/will buy.
Or are, as noted, Monster Skills and flatly unavailable to PCs. I think a lot of my innate distrust of this is flatly my experiences in the past with PC's for one reason or another having Monster Skills.

Also, the detailed summary above misses one of my own most concerning abilities :

Champion of the Living Level 5 : 1/Day touchcast Arcane Gift of Life (as per ritual without catalyst)

Seriously, that's free non-spellcraftable ritual magic every day without the scroll or the 4 required components. That's a concerning amount of value coming out of treasure policy for free, and a potential scaling issue because it allows a single character to effectively depower a major Undead enemy that isn't bottled with a single cast, or one that is bottled over the course of a weekend.
 
Last edited:

Graham Wolsey

Scholar
Denver Staff
Marshal
Given the depth of the material here I can say with certainty we will need more time to playtest this than has currently been allotted.
 

Graham Wolsey

Scholar
Denver Staff
Marshal
So I would argue for a high level fighter or rogue the cost is pretty low, about the cost of a prof at higher levels, as these classes scale very poorly now. And the higher level you are the less the 50 build means. Where as Casters scale perfectly from level 1 to level 100.

All these paragon powers for dropping your damage down by 1 seems like a very good trade off.

While this is true, a good argument could be made that Rogues and Fighters need extra power to replace the massive nerfs they have received through the changes to scaling.
 
Top