[2.0] Read and Write

Mark of Chaos

Artisan
Denver Staff
So they aren't the best at it (by perhaps even not good at it), or it doesn't last as long, or its niche, but it is still there in some form. If potions went to earth scrolls, what do you think about other classes having have some sort of very bad healing or niche status removal skills? Because those parts are still unique to Earth as far as I can tell.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
So they aren't the best at it (by perhaps even not good at it), or it doesn't last as long, or its niche, but it is still there in some form. If potions went to earth scrolls, what do you think about other classes having have some sort of very bad healing or niche status removal skills? Because those parts are still unique to Earth as far as I can tell.
C-Casters: Awaken, Dispel (removals), Wizard Lock/Ward/Wall of Force/Edit: Fortress (while these aren't healing, they certainly function to prevent damage).
Alchemists: Antidote, Cure

These already exist.
 

Saephis

Squire
"Doing Damage" isn't a viable comparison point, when its a printed rule in the book that plot has to pursue your character's death, should you cast damage as an Earth caster against non-undead. If your argument is "Should others be able to heal others, but be put to death for doing so", I would say no, because that's ridiculous.

The overall point is -- Every other class either has abilities that don't truly end (Fighters/Rogues/Scouts) or can supplement that ability with craft-skills that only they can use. Except Earth casters.
 

Tevas

Scholar
Marshal
Playtest Community Manager
This is a gentle reminder that the discussion on Read and Write or its viable replacement skill was broken away from around the end of the first page. Perhaps a thread geared towards the specific issue that this conversation has headed towards would be more appropriate? Discussion is wonderful, but keeping thoughts well organized is also critical. I have to provide a summary report to the owners and ARC on every thread. Unfortunately, a number of them have had to say, "thread is derailed to talk about X". The fewer of these entries I have to provide, the better. It would be greatly appreciated if efforts could be made to improve the level of discussion focus.


Thank you

Chris Fernandez
Alliance San Francisco Playtest Coordinator
Alliance LARP Playtest Community Manager
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
This is a gentle reminder that the discussion on Read and Write or its viable replacement skill was broken away from around the end of the first page. Perhaps a thread geared towards the specific issue that this conversation has headed towards would be more appropriate? Discussion is wonderful, but keeping thoughts well organized is also critical. I have to provide a summary report to the owners and ARC on every thread. Unfortunately, a number of them have had to say, "thread is derailed to talk about X". The fewer of these entries I have to provide, the better. It would be greatly appreciated if efforts could be made to improve the level of discussion focus.


Thank you

Chris Fernandez
Alliance San Francisco Playtest Coordinator
Alliance LARP Playtest Community Manager
Not derailed. Thread is about providing an alternative to Read/Write. Discussion is about proposition provided, and the impacts implementing such a proposition. It's got depth, certainly, but this conversation and exchange are entirely on topic.
 

Tevas

Scholar
Marshal
Playtest Community Manager
Norm's right on the money.

You want to know why people didn't want to get rid of pocket healers? Because they felt good knowing that they didn't need someone else to take care of them, that they were able to handle themselves, that they could be self-sufficient. Potions fly in the face of relying on other people, and it's always sorta bugged me that it was an exception to the rule.

Use weapons? You need alchemy to apply a coating.

Need a Dispel? Get yourself a Celestial caster.

Need healing/protective spells? No problem! No skill required for this magical drink thing!



That, bud, is the problem.

Unfortunately content like this demonstrates cause for an inclination to disagree.


Thank you

Chris Fernandez
Alliance San Francisco Playtest Coordinator
Alliance LARP Playtest Community Manager
 

Mark of Chaos

Artisan
Denver Staff
C-Casters: Awaken, Dispel (removals), Wizard Lock/Ward/Wall of Force/Edit: Fortress (while these aren't healing, they certainly function to prevent damage).
Alchemists: Antidote, Cure

These already exist.
Those c-scholar spells are a great example. Solid. How about warriors and rogues?
Preventing damage seems a pretty poor example, since that kind of thing exists all throughout the rules. I'm talking can your class' abilities take yourself and/or someone else from -1 to 1? It's a bit silly to be asking, but it's the core of what I was saying. Real healing lives in one spot only without potions. Unless you feel the first aid change or other things makes up for it (being able to refit armor = hp gain, for example).
Citing those alchemist elixirs seems poor form, considering they're just like the type of thing suggested trying to be removed by going from earth potions to scrolls. Unless my understanding of the rules is completely off and only alchemists can pour those down someone else's throat.

I'm with Draven that we're just way down the rabbit hole on one part of a larger proposition, but am more than happy enough to move it elsewhere if needed.

edited for some basic cleanup
 
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Tevas

Scholar
Marshal
Playtest Community Manager
I'm with Draven that we're just way down the rabbit hole on one part of a larger proposition, but am more than happy enough to move it elsewhere if needed.

Thank you, that would be appreciated in order to streamline reporting content.


Thank you

Chris Fernandez
Alliance San Francisco Playtest Coordinator
Alliance LARP Playtest Community Manager
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I'm done with the conversation.
 

jdackow

Adept
As a player I like the rp idea that not everyone know how to read and write. I have taught many this skill for free to help educate the population. However the cost seems high. I would be in favor of an additional skill "educated" that would absorbed the extra cost of decreasing read/write. Educated could also have some benefits of being taught some proper etiquette for interaction with different races. I see this working like a CO. Some maybe read/write is 1bp but you need to be educated 3bp to learn alchemy, or casting of magics. This would allow add to rp as PC's can study up on ways to interact with other race other than trial and error. Or change read/write to a free skill and make educated a replacement.

My two cents.
Jon D.
 
The owners said they are looking for a skill to replace Read & Write as pre-req skills. I had another thought. What about Meditate?

I see two ways to do this.

1) Change the cost of Meditate to match the current cost of Read & Write for each class.

2) Leave the cost as is and modify the cost of Read Magic, Healing Arts, and Herbal Lore such that the total cost for each class is identical as it is now to get spells / alchemy.

The second option means that the total cost to get both schools or to get one school and alchemy would increase by 1 (for a scholar), but I think that is a reasonably small enough change that it wouldn't really upset anyone.

-MS
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
As a player I like the rp idea that not everyone know how to read and write.
In theory, removing Read/Write from the skill list does not mean everyone needs to know how to read and write. It could simply put that decision in the hands of the player, much like whether or not your character knows how to cook, or what their favorite color is.
 

mythic

Knight
Owner
Calgary Staff
My thoughts on it is that it has to be a "universal skill" like R/W was. So it should not be just geared towards Magic.

What I thought about was Identifying items (non-magic). So if you have the skill, you can ID all production items with 60 seconds. If you have the pre-req skill to make the item (Read Magic, Herbal Lore or Healing Arts) it is 30 seconds. Tie it into Journeyman and Master levels of those skills as well (Create Potion, Scroll or Alchemy). Journeyman IDs in 15 seconds and a Master at 3 seconds.
 
I think 3 seconds is a bit too short for Master-level production skills, especially since it would render the Merchant's Insight ritual less useful for characters who intend to (or already have) Mastered multiple production skills, but reducing the time to 30 seconds for a Journeyman and 15 seconds for a Master seems about right? I'm admittedly a bit biased here, but a 30-second ID time for a character with no build spent on a production skill seems a bit short.

Other than the ID time, though, I like the Identification skill suggestion. I'm a little curious if it would provide any benefit to Blacksmithing and Traps (not Trap Globes, but actual Traps), or if those items are outside the desired scope of the skill.
 
I could be mistaken, but I thought anybody that could read could identify a celestial scroll (basically instantly). Best I knew, you just needed Read Magic to actually activate it.

-MS
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I could be mistaken, but I thought anybody that could read could identify a celestial scroll (basically instantly). Best I knew, you just needed Read Magic to actually activate it.

-MS
This is also my understanding.
 
I didn't think it took 60/30 seconds, but I was under the impression you had to have Read Magic to identify them... I don't have the rulebook handy at the moment, though, so I can't check easily, sorry. :(
 
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