Bin Laden Dead!

Avaran said:
Ithica said:
But who gets to judge the worth of his death?
Click to expand...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."

Are they just words on a page? Do people even think that way any more?
Click to expand...

All men are created equal, it is what you do after that creation that develops the gap between good & evil.
 
All that is being said by "all men are created equal" is that nobody should be judged from birth. Allow somebody to show you who they are. Osama showed the whole world who he was and got his just deserts.
 
I normally avoid politics with people I don't know, but as the historian in me (my BA is in History) is greatly annoyed when original context is skewed for modern debate, I have to make this distinction:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Click to expand...

That passage is a reference and response to the Divine Right of Kings, and specifically the British crown (which is why it leads right after the preamble of the Declaration of Independence). Its original meaning was to declare that Americans are to be self-ruled, as no man is above another based on heredity or blood-right, therefore no man has the right to rule over another. Later in the Constitution, the Founders would declare that the basis of power to rule is not in Divine Right- it comes from the people through a republic, and the people of the republic are all equals under the law (all are subject to the same laws, including the rulers). No man can claim to be above another as this inalienable right to freedom comes from God/the Creator/Non-man source of uber-power (different founders phrased this differently but it's the same idea), which is in direct and intentional opposition to the Divine Right of Kings. It also sets up that government of the people therefore cannot restrict freedom of the people (except for the enumerated federal powers in the Constitution) in life, liberty, or "pursuit of happiness" (edited from Locke's political theory of natural rights to life, liberty, and property).

All are equal under the law. Osama was outside the law about as far as you can go. He was an active enemy combatant in an international war who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people around the world. Justice was served.
 
jpariury said:
Avaran said:
Ithica said:
But who gets to judge the worth of his death?
Click to expand...
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."

Are they just words on a page? Do people even think that way any more?
Click to expand...
Gotta say, I don't. If given the choice between saving a loved one and saving a stranger, there's no coin toss, the loved one gets picked. Vast pools of inequality are born between being a random collection of cells and the here and now.
Click to expand...

Even got into a fight with my mom over that. She was bashing the Us's involvement in Lybia instead of helping us here at home and I asked her at what number is foreigner lives equal to that of US ones. ;)

My issue with it is of course that the moment someone is born, yes, we are all equal. However, starting around 5 seconds after that cord is cut, that all goes out the window. Social, political and religious views and beliefs that are then placed upon a person as they develop changes who they are. It is easy to often say that "Well when they're an adult, they should be able to think how they want and it's their fault if they don't." and to a point that's true. But during the crucible of the formative years of a child, what they are given by their immediate surroundings helps to form them into who and what they become.

And if Osama was found out to have had something like an actual mental condition, would we then feel less hatred towards him? In the US justice system, if you are considered mentally handicapped, you can almost walk on crimes that would get a 'mentally fit' person life in prison.
 
markusdark said:
Even got into a fight with my mom over that. She was bashing the Us's involvement in Lybia instead of helping us here at home
Click to expand...

So - she was mad we fired tomahawk missiles, then stepped back and let France step in and take the lead? For once, we aren't the lead, and she's mad about that?
 
at a time it appeared we were going to start with another war. there were a few days therebefore the u n took the reigns and that's when I was talking to her

of course she believes everything glenn beck says so that in itself is trouble
 
it's kind of a big difference... I don't see NATO taking over military operations as the US NOT fighting a war in Libya... Lets look at 2010's NATO funding by it's member nations in billions of dollars shall we?:

USA 687.105
France 61.285
UK 57.424
Germany 46.848
Italy 38.198
Canada 20.164
Spain 15.803
Turkey 15.634
Netherlands 11.604
Greece 9.369
Poland 8.320
Norway 6.322
Belgium 5.382
Portugal 5.213
Denmark 4.588
Czech Republic 2.529
Romania 2.164
Hungary 1.323
Croatia 1.060
Slovakia 1.010
Slovenia 0.788
Bulgaria 0.698
Lithuania 0.427
Estonia 0.336
Latvia 0.268
Luxembourg 0.255
Albania 0.201


we might not have ground troops in Libya... but you better believe we are financing all military operations there.
 
Mark,

Robb pointed out your error using empyrical evidence.

He didn't make a big deal of your mistake. A big deal would been ranting for 20 minutes and called you names.

Robb didn't even come close to that.

Go get some rest bro.

:robot:

Stephen
 
NATO = allies who might actually help us.
U.N. = Sorry conglomeration of hypocrites making excuses for their bad behavior and taking advantage of U.S. generosity. Libya was on the human rights council of the U.N. Nuff said.
 
markusdark said:
And if Osama was found out to have had something like an actual mental condition, would we then feel less hatred towards him? In the US justice system, if you are considered mentally handicapped, you can almost walk on crimes that would get a 'mentally fit' person life in prison.
Click to expand...

Well, that's not true -- it's just one of those urban myths people believe about the judicial system. http://www.cracked.com/article_18385_7- ... ovies.html
 
Got a few winks.

Robb, I apologize for the snarkiness of that last post. insomnia and sleep dep don't make good friends and unfortunately judgement is so poor that I don't know that I should just turn off the computer.

Lying in a bed, staring at the ceiling is maddening but doing actual real work is out of the question, so it's reading boards and well, as you can see, gets me into trouble in that condition.

Sorry again.

Mark
 
So I butched my timeline.

Clinton: Black hawk down

CARTER: OPERATION EAGLE CLAW (iranian hostage crisis)

Kenedy: Bay of Pigs

Obama: operation...... f up osama.....

My point remains the same, osama's death should not be taboo just because a handful of psycopathic idiots follow his ridiculous doctrine. If anyone honestly thinks that video games, movies, clever quips on family guy or south park will actually convince somone who is contemplating mass murder to go through with it..... well then I guess we are just f-ed.... maybe we should just censore absolutely everything so we don't accidently incite the UTTERLY INSANE. Good call.

Life isn't a boffer, u can't just cover it in foam and expect everyone to play nice. Osama was a ****. I'm glad he is dead and I don't think it is distasteful to repaly his final moments in a (prime example of the american, capitolist way) then with a multi million dollar video game franchise like Activision. The EXACT SAME WAY Black Ops replayed the Bay of Pigs inccident.

Now that I have removed all of the timeline skrew ups that nickname so cleverly picked up on can some one please answer the queation....


Who are we afraid of insulting? Mass murderers?

Why is every other form of media besides video games exempt from ridicule?


Better question, how much of your civil rights are you willing to sacrifice for security?

Anyone who would trade freedom for security deserves neither
 
Cpt.MarcusNelson,

Can we let the thread die? It had been almost a week since someone posted.

As the OP, I ask, please... let the thread die.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top