Golems vs Earth Casters: Comparisons

Robb G

Baron
If I recall the rules correctly, they would have to have 1 rank of celestial ritual in order to have been be a part of the casting of the construct, and therefor be able to use the high magic spirit store.
 

RiddickDale

Squire
Moderator
Public Relations Committee
Robb Graves said:
If I recall the rules correctly, they would have to have 1 rank of celestial ritual in order to have been be a part of the casting of the construct, and therefor be able to use the high magic spirit store.
Well yeah. But, that was part of a change that was made to discourage fighter golems and was also done to "make celestial cooler." If it is determined that Golems need to be spread around then that could be waived.

I mean... once you start changing rules in a game just about anything is possible.

Stephen
 

Robb G

Baron
i don't think the answer is giving golems to all other classes. if this is really the problem that i don't think it is, I'd rather see it become harder to spirit store into them (make the high magic cost greater), make creating a master construct harder/more expensive, or create a new awesome E-caster ritual/power that is equally as difficult to cast/use
 

RiddickDale

Squire
Moderator
Public Relations Committee
Full disclosure:

I don't think its a problem either. The golem gives an Offensive bonus... which is not the primary purpose of Earth magic.

If they want to be able to kill some zombies... then that's cool. I agree. I don't think Earth should need a robot to do it.

Couldn't we just let Earth caster's High magic a limited version of the Ritual of Woe and call it a day?
 
TiC: High magic option for Earth only: If the user dies, they can activate: Unchained Spirit, allowing them to move during their death count. During this time they cannot cast spells, swing weapons, or move faster than a walk. They are affected by nothing but gift effects (excluding weapons blows). A death will end the effect and put them on the ground, a life will restore them to alive. The unchained spirit may use high magic effects or rituals on their spirit or on spirit linked/locked items. Any uses of Healer's Resolve during this time have quintuple effect. Does not prevent Rebirth.
 

Toddo

Knight
HQ Staff
Marshal
Way too WoW priest for my taste. Plus if you have this on with a rebirth you have 5 minutes to wander into whatever ward or circle you're invested in, pop your rebirth at the end of your death count and be pretty darn unkillable.
 

Robb G

Baron
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
TiC: High magic option for Earth only: If the user dies, they can activate: Unchained Spirit, allowing them to move during their death count. During this time they cannot cast spells, swing weapons, or move faster than a walk. They are affected by nothing but gift effects (excluding weapons blows). A death will end the effect and put them on the ground, a life will restore them to alive. The unchained spirit may use high magic effects or rituals on their spirit or on spirit linked/locked items. Any uses of Healer's Resolve during this time have quintuple effect. Does not prevent Rebirth.
insane. love it. fricken zombies. :hahaha:
 

Pantzike

Scout
Cast Rit of WoE (with a cat) creates a single stake, which lasts one year (unless extended)

Anyone can use stake to kill vamp as normal day or night.

Earth ritualists involved in casting the ritual could have the option to bind it to them for a logistics period (similar to storing into a golem) and receive immunities activates basded off of the diffulity of the ritual when it was cast. Some or all of these may only work at night.

The stake is not renderable or linkabe and if it is ever destroyed the effect ends. While bound the stake must remain in contact with the caster. For any period it is not the effect ends until they are reunited.

Other than an extender no additional rituals may be cast on a stake.
 
Can we just address the problem/imbalance without creating new powers that generate new imbalances...pretty please, with sugar on top?
 

Togashin

Scholar
How about we wait a few months to see how the new golems and other changed abilities work out before freaking out and calling things OP.
 

RiddickDale

Squire
Moderator
Public Relations Committee
I think we're going to be doing that regardless.

This isn't an owners vote. This is a message board thread.

Stephen
 

markusdark

Knight
The only thing I know about playing with customized golems in the first game I played:

1) I didn't know they were golems. Well one I did because he's always in a golem body but this time he was all red so I didn't know what was up with him. The other person, I had thought he was under some LCO disease since i had seen similar makeup designs that signified that.

2) What I considered a MBG (Medium Bad Guy) came in swinging something like 7-12 Ice. The golemed PC immune to ice simply turned his back and said, "Could you hit me a little higher and to the left? Got an itch there." Although cute and it made me laugh, I noticed that the NPC was now at a loss what to do with this cool stated critter. And granted, that is how you fight things and all - but to me something just seemed 'wrong' overall.
 

jpariury

Duke
I don't know that I ever called golems "OP"*, in either the current or previous iterations, because "OP" suggests that it is unintended and undesirable for what the game the writers and runners have in mind. I think the jury is still out for me on whether or not they are Bad For The Game™. Here's what I have said:

  • The new golem rules are more powerful than the old ones, by virtue of the ability to customize.
  • Golems provide far more combined ritual effects in a single catalyst scroll than any other ritual in play.
  • Golems are substantially superior for fighting undead in every way than anything Earth casters can muster up.
  • Golems turn Celestial casters into healers.

There had long been a philosophy of not putting monster abilities into player hands. I disagreed with it then, and I disagree with it now. The social structure of the game has shifted that that philosophy is being enforced less and less. Necromancers can transform to undead and only be given roleplay notes by plot now; that's pretty cool. Celestialists can become Iron Man, and that's kinda neat. I'm not necessarily against these changes. But I do think a critical eye towards how it shifts previous archtypes is necessary, and being critical does not mean being against.

Necromancy is, by the rules, required to be illegal. The chant of times past was "if you want to deal damage, learn Celestial". I don't know that a chant of "If you want to heal yourself, learn Earth" is necessarily untoward. Maybe Celestial healing should be made illegal, I dunno.

*I might have, I just can't recall having said that exactly.
 

jpariury

Duke
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
jpariury said:
So, they could spellstrike?
If that's directed to me, then sure, why not? You could impose a limit of no celestial only effects if that was a real concern.
It seems like the goal is to make them not-in-combat, but allowing high magic and spirit-linked/locked rituals would lend itself to the strategy of creating a linked or locked spellstrike earth storm (or, heck, just an earth storm) with a yangload of Cloak Gift, making them nigh-untouchable. Add a Life, and they basically walk into an undead fight, kill themselves, SS earth storm the tar out of stuff, call no effect to everything but Death, which they Cloak/Bane. Right before they dissipate, they Life themselves.

And apply that to necro and it gets ugly.

Not against it, just not sure if that's the situation you intended to create.
 

Avaran

Baron
RiddickDale said:
dragonfire8974 said:
I have played against a golem once, but someone with a high celestial column who is going to be in a golem probably is going to prepare lots of magic armors and spell shields, as well as having some support with those things so that he/she won't take eviscerates. and subjugate isn't hard to get rid of right? especially if you have someone who is backing you while you hulk out.

I'm not the judge of what is OP or not, haven't had nearly enough experience. but subjugate and eviscerates aren't too hard to defend against
Until you have played IN one or on the field WITH one (not against.... WITH) you simply cannot use that sort of language.

Sorry. It is not possible.
I have both played in a golem (Ag and Hg) and played with my character's friends (at least one friend, often two) in one for multiple years now. This last weekend, we had 3 PC golems in my cabin, with an option for a 4th but he opted not to Spirit Store into one.

Does that count?
 

RiddickDale

Squire
Moderator
Public Relations Committee
Avaran said:
RiddickDale said:
Until you have played IN one or on the field WITH one (not against.... WITH) you simply cannot use that sort of language.

Sorry. It is not possible.
I have both played in a golem (Ag and Hg) and played with my character's friends (at least one friend, often two) in one for multiple years now. This last weekend, we had 3 PC golems in my cabin, with an option for a 4th but he opted not to Spirit Store into one.

Does that count?
Yes.

That doesn't invalidate my point that someone who HASN'T done something similar to that isn't qualified to make evaluative statements on this.

That's not to say that I don't want to see people sharing their opinions. I do. I just don't see validity in comments about how something is "easy" by folks who haven't done it considering my experiences with Golems.

Stephen
National PR
 
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