Latex Coated Foam
- Thread starter Jaerin
- Start date
markusdark
Knight
Wraith said:
NEROWest playtested it for over 5 years - using their combat system (identical to the Alliance) and with a mix of latex weapons and the boffer ones. When using 'ultralights' for the boffers - there was no distinct advantage over one another. I never once heard a boffer weapon wielder say that they were at a disadvantage. There were no greater number of injuries from one or the other. In fact, it basically came out that whatever you wanted to use would work. They did, however, reserve the right to force someone not to use latex swords if they were fighting unsafely with the weapon - most of which came to someone constantly thrusting with a sword (which cannot be thrust with). Just before they went on hiatus, I'd say that about 75% of the people there were using latex weapons.
I hit myself with a latex sword with a little bit of force and it did infact hurt. It just wasn't enough padding for me. The thicker softer ones I have yet to try. I say that a sword is only safe if you don't have to think about how hard you are swinging and it doesn't hurt or sting- barring massive baseball swings MEANT to hurt. Because basically you might not be thinking about how hard you are swinging in the heat of battle and if you did have to then that distracts from other multiple things you have to keep in mind with this game.
I'm sure with enough engineering you can get a very safe latex sword out there. Infact Polare has a mace/club that I thought looked great and was very safe. He even brained me a good one and it felt like a pillow. Polare's weapon for me is the exception and not the rule. I would say boffer is much safer then latex. With latex you have to pull your swings even more and often times in game we aren't thinking of how hard we swing- we just swing.
B~>
I'm sure with enough engineering you can get a very safe latex sword out there. Infact Polare has a mace/club that I thought looked great and was very safe. He even brained me a good one and it felt like a pillow. Polare's weapon for me is the exception and not the rule. I would say boffer is much safer then latex. With latex you have to pull your swings even more and often times in game we aren't thinking of how hard we swing- we just swing.
B~>
obcidian_bandit
Count
jpariury said:I doubt it would have the widespread appeal they generally go for. If we had a force gauge, and built an automated arm rig that swung at a consistent rate without any weapons, and a chronograph, we could probably put together a decent set of tests.markusdark said:
jpariury said:We should make an MB-style video about it. I'll bring the chrono and the popcorn.
Oh... oh yeah. I'll do this over the summer, if someone reminds me (I'm looking at you JP).
I've got all the equipment we'd need in my labs, just not the time until then. I'll be doing research over the summer, but I'd burn a weekend to pull this off.
~Matt, WCV
Physics Geek
I understand that safety is paramount and will always be a priority since noone wants their weekend to end with one less eye or stitches. Still, with that being said, when you LARP, isn't there still a certain expectation of pain? After all -- and correct me if I am wrong -- but isn't LARPing an activity that involves not only roleplaying a character, but also greatly involves engaging in full-contact melee combat? Isn't melee combat one of the biggest draws of LARPing (if not, then people would just join a local theatre group)?
When I play Airsoft (and when I used to play paintball), I knew that I was gonna feel that sting and maybe even go home with a couple of welts. But I accepted it, since that is what I signed up for. It's no different than signing up to play football or taking up martial arts.
When I play Airsoft (and when I used to play paintball), I knew that I was gonna feel that sting and maybe even go home with a couple of welts. But I accepted it, since that is what I signed up for. It's no different than signing up to play football or taking up martial arts.
syra pefferfoot
Scout
there are some larps that go all out, sheild bashing and kicking, charging, and all those other things that can go wrong.
with allience, safty is very important, there is no shields bashing, or kicking, or charging.
and what i have experienced is just some one swinging a weapon just a bit to hard. as some people just get excited a little and may not realize it.
ive also caught the tip of a sword on my face a couple times, but that was just very bad timing on my part, or catching a packet in the neck.
im sure some other people will add to this below mine.
with allience, safty is very important, there is no shields bashing, or kicking, or charging.
and what i have experienced is just some one swinging a weapon just a bit to hard. as some people just get excited a little and may not realize it.
ive also caught the tip of a sword on my face a couple times, but that was just very bad timing on my part, or catching a packet in the neck.
im sure some other people will add to this below mine.
Oh I am not saying that kicking and charging should be condoned unless it is allowed in the rules. But if you are allowed to swing a sword at someone, then swing a sword -- with the proper control of course.
I could go into another Airsoft analogy but I won't.
Control is the most important thing.
I could go into another Airsoft analogy but I won't.
Control is the most important thing.
Lets be honest here the safety mantra really doesn't cut it.
We disallow things that are considered safe for 4 year olds to use (nerf bows etc) for safety and it just doesn't hold up. At this same time we have wands which are used in combat identically to a crossbow but are phys reped by sticks. perhaps decorative sticks but still just sticks without padding without any real safety restrictions. I don't think that matters honestly I don't see wands upping hte injury rate of nero drastically but to say that a well made shaped latex sword is unsafe with those running around reeks of hipocrisy.
Now if you want to argue that the concern is that the flatblades will hurt more (not dangerous but just sting more) you can try and argue it but I think most anecdotal evidence will point to the ductape covered club that is the standard being more painfull.
We disallow things that are considered safe for 4 year olds to use (nerf bows etc) for safety and it just doesn't hold up. At this same time we have wands which are used in combat identically to a crossbow but are phys reped by sticks. perhaps decorative sticks but still just sticks without padding without any real safety restrictions. I don't think that matters honestly I don't see wands upping hte injury rate of nero drastically but to say that a well made shaped latex sword is unsafe with those running around reeks of hipocrisy.
Now if you want to argue that the concern is that the flatblades will hurt more (not dangerous but just sting more) you can try and argue it but I think most anecdotal evidence will point to the ductape covered club that is the standard being more painfull.
Angrydurf said:
I have to agree with this one. If saftey is so important to Alliance then why continue with the PVC, pipe insulation, and duct tape design. Really? There is no other safer or less painful designs out there?
I've swung with 1/4 of my strength with a monster camp claw weapon and I was still getting complaints as to hitting too hard. I use my funnuddle swords and noone complains even at 1/2 half my strength in the swing.
Then you can't use a real bow for whatever reason in this game that is replaced with a lame physrep and packets :? . Assuming that this could be another "saftey issue" with Alliance then there are fantastically safe ways of making the bow much much safer to where even a hypochondriac would be comfortable with it. But then again someone might strangle themselves with the bow string. Too much the risk.
B~>
BTW nerf stuff just looks stupid and an image does need to be upheld. We may be nerds in the park hitting with foam sticks screaming out "2 damage!"...but we have standards.
I've been hit with latex weapons before, wouldn't mind being hit with them again, but I do have a bit of trepidation. The way ultralights have influenced some of the fighting styles I've seen to have much more in the way of wrist flicks and high speed drumrolling, I would be less than comfortable facing when done with a weapon rep with a firmer and possibly pointed tip. This isn't the SCA, and I don't always have a closed-face hem on. All it would take is ducking wrong once to get a poke that would make me really unhappy.
Then again, all it takes to salve that problem is slowing down combat a little and fighting safer instead of faster. How to do that is one hell of a debate.
Then again, all it takes to salve that problem is slowing down combat a little and fighting safer instead of faster. How to do that is one hell of a debate.
Yeah, I was a bit surprised about the bow not being an actual bow that can launch an actual projectile. I would love to use a real bow, not hold the bow across from me and then throw a packet -- for the simple reason that I absolutely suck at throwing anything. but I know that with a bow and actual arrow, I am actually pretty accurate.
Combat gets to fast in alliace, is it ultra-lights? maybe but mostly its the way people fight even a duct tape PVC boffer is easy to swing fast and people do. How to fix it? Safety marshalls and lots of them both PC and NPC. One chapter I was helping out in we used a yellow card red card system (like in soccer ? I'm so bad with traditional sports) So if you charged you'd get carded do it again and you lost fighting privlages for the rest of the mod or game. Most chapters I've been to have a system where people will callthe behavior but not actually have any repercusions for any but hte most agregious offenders.
What you as a player can do though is two fold, if poeple are fighting too fast don't take the hits. Rapid hits to the same location? I'll count that as one. Wrist flicks where the blade moves only like 30 degrees? Call machinegunning and take the first hit maybe. Mangled calls cus thier fighting too fast? Flub. Hit before they finish thier call? Flub. Prety quick people slow down and the fight is more fun for everyone.
Also and even more importantly fight slower yourself. When I slow down and swing maybe once every 3-5 seconds my opponant usually will too. Its a more tactical tading of blows than frenetic crazyness.
In the end though ultralights are allowed and are certainly no harder to swing fast than latex so theres that. But you can get most of the latex vendors to make custom peices that will fit alliance standards especially for axes and blunts. most swords will be too narrow on the flat. It is the way the rules are but I really don't see the safety thing actually being an issue.
P.S. Yea nerf doesn't look good but the reason give to me for no nerf no real bows has always been safety so its a good example of how rediculous that argument is. I mean its an ages 4 and up toy and wands are basicly pointed sticks.
What you as a player can do though is two fold, if poeple are fighting too fast don't take the hits. Rapid hits to the same location? I'll count that as one. Wrist flicks where the blade moves only like 30 degrees? Call machinegunning and take the first hit maybe. Mangled calls cus thier fighting too fast? Flub. Hit before they finish thier call? Flub. Prety quick people slow down and the fight is more fun for everyone.
Also and even more importantly fight slower yourself. When I slow down and swing maybe once every 3-5 seconds my opponant usually will too. Its a more tactical tading of blows than frenetic crazyness.
In the end though ultralights are allowed and are certainly no harder to swing fast than latex so theres that. But you can get most of the latex vendors to make custom peices that will fit alliance standards especially for axes and blunts. most swords will be too narrow on the flat. It is the way the rules are but I really don't see the safety thing actually being an issue.
P.S. Yea nerf doesn't look good but the reason give to me for no nerf no real bows has always been safety so its a good example of how rediculous that argument is. I mean its an ages 4 and up toy and wands are basicly pointed sticks.
I do the same thing fromt he beginning of my career I was afraid of swinging too fast/hard so I use this giant hammer (still a one handed but most people think its a two hander cus of the size of the hammers head) It keeps me from whipping around to do old fencing moves and even if I hit max fors its like getting hit with a pillow so I'm told.
Celebolwa
Scholar
remember as stated in the rulebook: Alternate (not pvc) cores made of fiberglass,graphite or carbon such as fishing poles or kitespar are smetimes used, but this is at the descretion of each chapter. (page 79 center column)
Standard construction tends to get failed the least (in comparison with ultralights) in my experience as both the player and checking weapons.
Standard construction tends to get failed the least (in comparison with ultralights) in my experience as both the player and checking weapons.
You want to slow a game's combat down? Less body.Less armor. The PC's have to think about combat and 'in-game' safety instead of wading into combat willy-nilly. You don't swing the sword 120 times a minute when one or two hits from the other guy puts you on the ground. You block his/her weapon, and hope for an opening. Your armor can then be used to do DR because people spent their BP on defensive skills instead of profs. Slower and safer combat, with more intense moments, and less math, will lead to more role-playing during combat. And allows for latex.
With lower body, a 10th level fighter doesn't have to worry about an goblin, but he needs to get nervous when jumped by 4-5 goblins. In the current system, with close to 30 body and 40 armor, it is a matter of how fast he is with a sword, not how much damage they can do to him.
With lower body, a 10th level fighter doesn't have to worry about an goblin, but he needs to get nervous when jumped by 4-5 goblins. In the current system, with close to 30 body and 40 armor, it is a matter of how fast he is with a sword, not how much damage they can do to him.
I would tend to say lower body woudl encourage fast hits. Really the system we have right now works very well for keeping combat slow as long as people follow the rules. Clear calls, varried hit location corect arcs of swing all lead to combat at a pretty good pace. Unfortunately in the heat of a big fight alot of that goes out the window and those rules start to get ignored.
Wraith said:
Actually, it is a good switch from Alliance combat. It is played at another local larp, and not needing to do mental mathematical gymnastics is fun too. It does have a bit more of a "pack" mentality. 2-4 NPC's of average level can goon a solo high level person.
They have longer fights due to more cautious fighting styles. Armor is a much more needed/required item for survival. (armor versus speed)
I am not saying the system used in Alliance is bad. I am saying that 'slower' lower math based - less speed based games do exist.
Sorry about the thread jack.
To go back on to the topic, I have seen "NERO/Alliance" style boffers with waylay tips get latex coatings. It is a long and tedious process, and it is a very costly start up. BUT, they do look better (IMHO), they are just as safe, and are more spongy in colder weather.