Mike Ventrella
Duke
I don't think the item has to be hollow to be allowed. The most important thing is for it to take up space.
My newbie questions
- Thread starter David_Aselrik
- Start date
jpariury
Duke
It might be better to just say it needs to take up .45 cubic inches, to keep it clear.
In case anyone wants a frame of reference, here's some cylinders that would fit the volume:
1" long - 4/5" wide
2" long - 3/5" wide
3" long - just under 1/2" wide
(For any schmucks out there - no using sponges.
)
In case anyone wants a frame of reference, here's some cylinders that would fit the volume:
1" long - 4/5" wide
2" long - 3/5" wide
3" long - just under 1/2" wide
(For any schmucks out there - no using sponges.
)
markusdark
Knight
My personal thought would be to round the amount to .5 cubic inches - give a .05 leeway for the container walls to hold the liquid and makes the math a bit easier.
TO: West Coast JP
If not using "test tubes" how do you see the tag being handled in conjuction with these other kinds of phys reps?
What kinds of strange phys reps would you consider not being in the spirit of the rules (for example, could I use a 4' long shoe lace instead of a potion bottle ... it would have the requisite volume --- and I could weave a bunch of them together to make a shawl which I could wear around my shoulders - and I could attach the tags to each with a piece of silk thread)?
Does a potion phys rep need a stopper or other device which is opened to allow the potion to be drunk?
I prefer to keep things simple - and use a functional potions rep which looks and acts like the actual item it represents.
If not using "test tubes" how do you see the tag being handled in conjuction with these other kinds of phys reps?
What kinds of strange phys reps would you consider not being in the spirit of the rules (for example, could I use a 4' long shoe lace instead of a potion bottle ... it would have the requisite volume --- and I could weave a bunch of them together to make a shawl which I could wear around my shoulders - and I could attach the tags to each with a piece of silk thread)?
Does a potion phys rep need a stopper or other device which is opened to allow the potion to be drunk?
I prefer to keep things simple - and use a functional potions rep which looks and acts like the actual item it represents.
jpariury
Duke
I've seen wooden pegs with the "top" colored darker than the rest of the wood, with the tag scotchtaped and wrapped with the writing inside towards the body of the peg, so that they could label their vials anyway they want in-game, and let the tag reveal the result on the outside. I saw someone use slightly thicker pegs that I think were used for shelf doors or some such, that had a neat little knobby end.
I generally use the same kind of rule I use for playing 40k: if it looks enough like a "vial" or "bottle" from eight feet away or so, it's good enough for me. A shoelace doesn't cut it for me, but a wooden peg like I described does. You could probably take one of those rubber bouncy balls you get for a quarter at the grocery store, add some kind of pushpin or button on top so it looks like a gummi-berry juice gourd, and I'd call it good. Appropriate lengths of clear acrylic rods might be cool, too. For the most part, I care more about the look than whether or not the object actually is hollow or actually holds a liquid in it, but the rule is designed to create some form of "cost" to its use - the space it takes up (which is why a "sponge vial" that you squish up when storing it doesn't fit my personal opinion of keeping in the spirit). It doesn't need an actual stopper, but something to rep one would be good (like the darkened tops of wooden pegs, or knobby bits). Really, so long as you're taking at least three seconds to act out drinking from your vial prop, and from eight feet away someone is likely to mistake it for a vial or bottle, it should be fine.
Could you just a string-vial rep? Sure, I suppose. It really depends on what you're trying to rep with it and how close you come to looking like that. Maybe you're a dryad with "hollow vines" that hold your potions and such? (Actually... I could really see someone with "bamboo reeds" strung out on a necklace... makes a note to himself.) I'd certainly give something like that more thought than a shawl, which, imo, lacks a good ig justification and doesn't come anywhere near looking like something that might be holding a liquid in it from eight-feet away.
One good argument in favor of using solid reps rather than hollow ones is that they are less apt to break from being struck, players falling, running into things, etc.
I generally use the same kind of rule I use for playing 40k: if it looks enough like a "vial" or "bottle" from eight feet away or so, it's good enough for me. A shoelace doesn't cut it for me, but a wooden peg like I described does. You could probably take one of those rubber bouncy balls you get for a quarter at the grocery store, add some kind of pushpin or button on top so it looks like a gummi-berry juice gourd, and I'd call it good. Appropriate lengths of clear acrylic rods might be cool, too. For the most part, I care more about the look than whether or not the object actually is hollow or actually holds a liquid in it, but the rule is designed to create some form of "cost" to its use - the space it takes up (which is why a "sponge vial" that you squish up when storing it doesn't fit my personal opinion of keeping in the spirit). It doesn't need an actual stopper, but something to rep one would be good (like the darkened tops of wooden pegs, or knobby bits). Really, so long as you're taking at least three seconds to act out drinking from your vial prop, and from eight feet away someone is likely to mistake it for a vial or bottle, it should be fine.
Could you just a string-vial rep? Sure, I suppose. It really depends on what you're trying to rep with it and how close you come to looking like that. Maybe you're a dryad with "hollow vines" that hold your potions and such? (Actually... I could really see someone with "bamboo reeds" strung out on a necklace... makes a note to himself.) I'd certainly give something like that more thought than a shawl, which, imo, lacks a good ig justification and doesn't come anywhere near looking like something that might be holding a liquid in it from eight-feet away.
One good argument in favor of using solid reps rather than hollow ones is that they are less apt to break from being struck, players falling, running into things, etc.
markusdark
Knight
Ondreij said:
Cool! I can make a cape of scrolls now! (Nothing says scrolls have to have a min dimension nor be made out of paper).
Again, I think that this falls under the intent of the rules instead of the letter. If someone brought in a shoestring potion bottle, I'd say no. It wasn't in the spirit of the rules. If they brought in something that looks like it could be used to hold a potion though - be it an actual vial, a straw or just a piece of solid wood - I'd be ok with it.
David_Aselrik
Newbie
I think it depends how much effort the person tried to put into their outfit, if it is conceivably similar to the item being represented and most importantly, on how much of a jerk you are. If you want to be a total jerk, make sure everyone has hollowed out vials. Also, make sure they're casting actual magic.
markusdark
Knight
As you might be able to tell from my avatar, I can actually throw real flamebolts up to 15 feet away. As for a Dragon's Breath, I could breathe fire around 20-30 depending upon the wind.
Shall we dance?
Shall we dance?
jpariury said:
The potions phial reps I buy are darned near indestructible. a funny story involving this:
One day my character brought some "Cause" potions he found on a baddy (they where tags, only, which where unrepped, so I repped them right away) which he brought to the Order of Light to be destroyed. The Guardian tossed them on the ground, and tried to stomp on them to break them (thus "destroying" the potions) - but instead of breaking, they went ZOOOOP - across the floor. And no amount of stomping on them broke the phials. So, she took the phials, stepped outside, opened the caps, and "poured" the potions onto the ground.
Now- that kind of plastic phial is very game safe, I would say.
markusdark
Knight
I like to put two tic tacs into my vials. Orange ones for alchemy and green ones for potions. It is a nice rep/RP having someone take them out and actually eat them. "Take two and stop bleedin' on my floor."
markusdark said:
Well, actually a scroll has to be at least 16 square inches -- so I think you meant to say no MAXIMUM dimension - and, yeah, you're right -- if you wanted to make a scroll the size of a cloak you could. However, (IG I am a master scroll maker, so I have often conducted thinking experiments which I then discuss with one of our Rules Marshalls) in the opinion of one of our most trusted Rules Marshalls, a scroll has to resemble a scroll and be recognizable as a scroll whether it is made of paper, leather, cloth, or whatever. I would expect the same of potions phials.
Also, a scroll must be a separate item -- it would not, for example, be legitimate to take a large piece of cloth (say 2' x 8') and outline some 16 square inch areas in magic marker (144 of them, in this example) with incants written inside each area and call that a group of scrolls -- it is one item (a large piece of cloth) so it can only be one scroll. Now, if you made a bunch of scrolls out of cloth and you put button holes in them and fastened them to your clothing with buttons sewn on your shirt and pants I don't think that anyone would fight with you on that -- you can take the scroll off of your clothing by just unbuttoning it (just remember that you have to be able to put the tag on the scroll, so taping it onto a piece of plastic sheet sewn into the back side of the cloth would be legitimate).
Writing the incant on a plastic pumpkin with a surface area of 16 square inches or more would probably not be a ligitimate scroll ... or so says the Rules Marshall I have talked to about this. Writing an incant on your sword would not make your sword a scroll, either, even though it has a surface area of more than 16 square inches (IMHO).
markusdark
Knight
Ondreij said:
Ah, well I have run into games where scrolls were written on stones, planks of wood and even had a golem that had the scrolls inscribed onto its limbs - all of them adding a great deal of interesting detail to storylines. However, I DO have to admit that I like the idea of hanging tags from a cloak. That way all readers of scrolls could simply come up, rip one off and use it.
Ondreij said:
these ideas intrigue me. ¿what was the thought process behind scrolls demanding individuation? reading over the Scroll Phys Rep rules (ARB pg. 102) i see nothing which expressly forbids it. so long as dimensions are handled properly and no overlapping occurs, it shouldn't be a problem. ¿how did you Rules Marshall come to her conclusion, if you don't mind me asking?
Mobius said:
I don't know what his specific thought process was, but the rules say: "You must have an actual scroll phys rep
for each scroll tag." I believe that, by the rules of English grammar, the pronoun "an" indicates individuation, and that it is further reinforced by the phrase "for each scroll tag". This is parallel to the rule or rule interpretation that states that one may not have more than one potion in a potion phial, but that you must have one phial of the required minimum size for each potions tag.
But, otherwise, I would say that it is clearly a "spirit of the rules" thing.
Ezri said:Probably because our tags are green.Ondreij said:
Well ... no, actually. I think that maybe our earth magic tags are green for the same reason that my character dresses in green ... and why, I think, we associate green foliage with calling upon the power of the earth from which all healing comes, and why my character's patria (see the Caldaria Mystic Wood Elf race pack) which is associated with healing has green as one of its primary thematic colors --> green is a calming color and is known to lower blood pressure (see works by C. Jung related to man and his symbols and other works by Jung and others which analyze colors and their associations -- most of which most people are not conscious, but which demonstrably operate on human psychology and physiology at a pre-conscious or subconsious level.)
markusdark
Knight
Who's Mercedes Lackey?
I was just always under the impression of:
Earth=Green
Celestial=Blue
Alchemy=Orange
Chaos=Red
I thought that it was required that Perm Earth Circles were Green and Perm Celestial Circles were blue - must be from an old set of rules...
I was just always under the impression of:
Earth=Green
Celestial=Blue
Alchemy=Orange
Chaos=Red
I thought that it was required that Perm Earth Circles were Green and Perm Celestial Circles were blue - must be from an old set of rules...