New Rule Book Comment Thread

[obcidian_bandit]

The guy on p. 140 is wearing sunglasses.
There's a typo on 135. "Earth's Bounty" (capitalized consistently) is "Earth's bounty" in the title of the description of that ability.
Healer's Resolve introduces the effect "Heal" that is not described elsewhere in the book. The description says it is touchcast, but doesn't follow other touchcasting rules (can be done while silenced). Will this effect/delivery bypass a spellshield, or will it set one off if the recipient is unconscious?
Elemental burst is wrong. Already brought that up in its own thread.
Terror ruined all the hard work that went into having a consistent rules system with effect groups. It's now in the same boat as Resist Element for "You thought you knew the rules, but here come the exceptions."
I'm really, really, really disappointed that the sample module didn't change. That's probably the worst possible example of how to write a module that exists. You don't want your new plot people/module writers coming in with the idea that introducing piles of new rules and effects that cause holds for their mods is a good thing.
I like the Oak of the Arcane thing. That and one handed blocking might bring back staves.
I like that using a golem has way more drawbacks now, with out totally hosing people that use them.

 

[elliotbay]

The guy on p. 140 is wearing sunglasses.

No, they're Transitions lenses (or maybe that's a brand and there's some generic term). Eyeglasses that turn dark in the sunlight, and go clear in the dark.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

regardless, glasses can be in-period. While I admit these aren't the most in-period they are a fairly accurate representation... And anyways, Bill is wearing frikin awesome scale mail... Not to mention all the other in that shot, I love pictures with lots of armor because it makes it feel so much more medial.

 

[Mike Ventrella]

Terror ruined all the hard work that went into having a consistent rules system with effect groups. It's now in the same boat as Resist Element for "You thought you knew the rules, but here come the exceptions."

I agree completely, but couldn't convince the owners.

I'm really, really, really disappointed that the sample module didn't change. That's probably the worst possible example of how to write a module that exists. You don't want your new plot people/module writers coming in with the idea that introducing piles of new rules and effects that cause holds for their mods is a good thing.

No, I wanted an example that these kinds of things can exist in modules and therefore players shouldn't complain about them when they show up. I know, I know -- hard to believe, but I actually thought about that first and came up with a different opinion than you did about whether it was a good example or the "worst possible."

 

[obcidian_bandit]

The guy on p. 140 is wearing sunglasses.

No, they're Transitions lenses (or maybe that's a brand and there's some generic term). Eyeglasses that turn dark in the sunlight, and go clear in the dark.

Regardless of the reason that they're tinted, there's someone wearing sunglasses in that picture.

glasses can be in-period.

I've got no problem with the other two people in the picture wearing glasses, just the one pair of sunglasses. As far as 'pictures without obvious anachronisms in them' go, sunglasses are towards the top of my list on people who are otherwise in costume.

Bill is wearing frikin awesome scale mail... Not to mention all the other in that shot, I love pictures with lots of armor because it makes it feel so much more medial.

True, that scalemail does look pretty keen, and I do appreciate that there's at least 3 suits of armor represented there. I'm just saying: Sunglasses.

No, I wanted an example that these kinds of things can exist in modules and therefore players shouldn't complain about them when they show up. I know, I know -- hard to believe, but I actually thought about that first and came up with a different opinion than you did about whether it was a good example or the "worst possible."

I thought we were on the same side as far as rules consistency across chapters. If you like to encourage your plot members to make up new rules when there are viable ways to accomplish their goals within the existing rules, so be it. I prefer a consistent world that doesn't strain the suspension of disbelief constantly. Maybe you should try out a Vampire larp, I hear you can be invisible there.

 

[Lira]

I like the Oak of the Arcane thing. That and one handed blocking might bring back staves.

So do I. That was e-mailed in from a player, I believe Ray Roberge. There were a lot of player contributions that made it into the rulebook, most notably would be High Magic itself and skills under the High Magic chart. Just the addition of High Magic to the game is noteworthy, I think. Artisans got a very nice boost in this book, Biatas and Stone Elves got extra racials that enhance the role play of the game. Also,there's the additions of an entirely new race. I think that this rulebook has a lot of new and exciting changes in it.


-Renee

 

[JakSonus]

A ways back someone mentioned that One-Handed Blocking with a staff may not have been implemented. It is in there, and thus creates a contradiction in the rules.

In the book on page 66, under the skill Staff it is stated:
"Staff use is restricted for safety reasons,
so a player using a staff must keep both hands
gripped within the middle 3 feet of the staff."

However, on page 81 it states:
"You must have both hands on the staff to
attack, but you may block with only one hand
on the staff."

I am fairly certain that the intent was that we would be able to block one-handed and the info listed under the staff skill is incorrect (possibly legacy text from previous addition that was not changed).

-Jason 'Jakartin Sonus'

 

[Dreamingfurther]

The intent did change. This may be another situation where the wording just needs to be clarified.

 

[Mike Ventrella]

I like the Oak of the Arcane thing. That and one handed blocking might bring back staves.

So do I. That was e-mailed in from a player, I believe Ray Roberge. There were a lot of player contributions that made it into the rulebook, most notably would be High Magic itself and skills under the High Magic chart. Just the addition of High Magic to the game is noteworthy, I think. Artisans got a very nice boost in this book, Biatas and Stone Elves got extra racials that enhance the role play of the game. Also,there's the additions of an entirely new race. I think that this rulebook has a lot of new and exciting changes in it.

-Renee

The problem with threads like this is that some people will read the book, like 99% of it, and say nothing, and then see the 1% that pisses them off, and that's what they post about!

 

[Maxondaerth]

Very nice job on the rule book to all who worked on it for months and months and hours and days and... well anyway, overall I think a lot of improvements have been brought to the game this time around, as a two-stick jockey and a celestial caster, I am definitely feeling the love *grin*. A few things that stand out in my mind that haven't been touched on yet (I agree with some of the other comments and not with others, but since they've been addressed already I'll skip em in this posting):

-Master scroll maker skill to be able to cast from scrolls in the dark. Really? I can appreciate trying to give crafters some love, but this one seems hard to justify/implement. If they can't see em, how are they supposed to know they're holding the right scroll, that they're reading the right side of it, etc? I mean, even thought I can't create a scroll, if I put ten scrolls in my pocket and every one of them is a Flamebolt and I know that the tag is facing me and on the left side of the scroll phys rep, aren't I now holding it correctly and know exactly what scroll I'm casting from? I just don't see what being a master scriber of scrolls gives you that lets you do this beyond anyone else who can read/use them, and I see it as being impossible to either self-check or marshal that people are casting from the correct scrolls at the time of casting.

-Thrown weapons, the description says smallest dimension is 3" but the chart says min length is 2", so doesn't that contradict? Since we are allowed to use pipe foam without core material shouldn't it basically follow the same "no fitting in an eye socket" on any given end which is 2" and not 3"?

-Blade spells. Now that they last ten minutes, I'm unsure of the intent for these spells. Previously, the spells were cast on the person, much like an Endow, and it stayed on that person until used, at which point they swung the weapon once, the spell was used, and that was that. Now, the description states "This spell allows the recipient to transform a weapon into a temporary blah-enchanted blade." Does this mean that once a person activates their Blade spell, the aura is on that specific weapon that they were wielding at the time they activated it and now it only effects that specific weapon, or if say I activate my Earth blade and then my sword is shattered ten seconds later, can I now draw my short sword and continue to swing for Earth with the new weapon? It seems to me it would be easier all around to have it effecting the wielder and not the weapon, otherwise you also get into problems like "well what if so and so goes down and I scoop up their weapon, do I know it has an aura on it and how long it has left?" and things of that nature.
Also, now that profs are no longer handed, if the spell is affecting the wielder and not the specific weapon for the ten minute duration, can I swing that carrier in both hands? My hope would be yes, primarily because I know a big part of 'unhanding' profs was to streamline damage calls and make it easier for people to keep track of what hits they were taking and what damage they are calling when making those attacks, so it seems like this would continue to help that along.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

I'm not 100% sure here either about the blade spell intent in regards to what you've pointed out Jeff. But I hope that its just "for 10 minutes the recipient of the spell can channel x element/earth/chaos/magic with whatever weapons." Otherwise yea it would be really confusing. And also I don't know if this was clarified, but can you still have the spell cast on you and wait to activate it until you are ready? Or does the 10 minute duration only last from the time of casting?

 

[Mike Ventrella]

Very nice job on the rule book to all who worked on it for months and months and hours and days and... well anyway, overall I think a lot of improvements have been brought to the game this time around, as a two-stick jockey and a celestial caster, I am definitely feeling the love *grin*.

On behalf of everyone who worked hard on this, thank you!

Master scroll maker skill to be able to cast from scrolls in the dark. Really?

We couldn't think of anything else! The other skills have things like "Can identify potions in 30 seconds instead of 60" and that doesn't apply to scrolls.

Blade spells. Now that they last ten minutes, I'm unsure of the intent for these spells.

They're on the weapon and last ten minutes from the time cast.

 

[dreadpiratebill]

The guy on p. 140 is wearing sunglasses.

No, they're Transitions lenses (or maybe that's a brand and there's some generic term). Eyeglasses that turn dark in the sunlight, and go clear in the dark.

Regardless of the reason that they're tinted, there's someone wearing sunglasses in that picture.

glasses can be in-period.

I've got no problem with the other two people in the picture wearing glasses, just the one pair of sunglasses. As far as 'pictures without obvious anachronisms in them' go, sunglasses are towards the top of my list on people who are otherwise in costume.

Bill is wearing frikin awesome scale mail... Not to mention all the other in that shot, I love pictures with lots of armor because it makes it feel so much more medial.

True, that scalemail does look pretty keen, and I do appreciate that there's at least 3 suits of armor represented there. I'm just saying: Sunglasses.

First, they are in fact transitions lenses, not sunglasses. Secondly, I can't see clearly at more than 5 feet away without my glasses. Thirdly, I am quite photosenisitve due to a genetic condition in my eyes, so bright lights hurt a LOT. I get headaches, and my eyes feel like someone is stabing them anyime I am in full sunlight, more so on the rare times I go out in the sun without my glasses. I don't bring it up because I am used to it, and everyone has issues.

That suit is a full stainless steel scale with brass inlays woven on top of split rings. I do everything I can to make my costuming in period. I have nice leather knee boots, not sneekers or cleats. I wear a ren tunic or one of my hand woven coton tunics from india (had a exchange student roomate in college so I lucked out there) under the armor. I do applogise tho if the glasses I wear to avoid migranes take away from your game experience.
--bill

 

[Maxondaerth]

I've known Matt for ten years, so I know that his objection was not raised that you were allowed to use them at the game, only that it was used in a promotional photo for the game. We all know there are a lot of modern devices and things used in and around the game site all the time, and we just work around it, but when using photos of the game to try and get people interested from the get go the idea was to minimize showing that impact. I didn't see the photo before I had read his post, so I can't speak to what my gut reaction to it uninfluenced by that would have been, but seeing you IG with those glasses and armor at the Jan Ohio event I can say you make a rockin' looking Biata and that armor adds waaaaay more in person than the glasses take away, tinted or not.

 

[Maxondaerth]

Thanks for the replies, Mike. I can understand that difficulty on rewarding the scrollmakers in the game, and I can think of a few other ways it could have been done, but I don't wanna start that discussion on here cause then that's gonna lead to a lot of potential frustration and stuff for the people who did all the hard work in the first place, plus it's too late now anyway. If owners or ARC are interested in changing that in the addendum I'd suggest either opening a discussion thread for it or contact me via PM if you want my ideas to then discuss privately or put up on a poll or something. Otherwise I'll keep em to myself till the next edition .

 

[Ondreij]

A Master Scrollmaker is so in tune with his craft that he is able to intuit which scroll he has in his hand. It's almost as if the magical vibrations of the scroll, which are unique to each spell inscribed on the scroll, are something that the Master scrollmaker can feel as easily as a master baker knows just when the bread is done with barely a wiff of the bread without opening the oven.

I hope that this "explanation" is sufficient.

 

[Maxondaerth]

Oh I can justify it to myself or anyone else a hundred different ways, I do it with lots of the "reasons" why things in the system are what they are. It just strikes me that this particular one leaves a door open for a huge margin of error in the implementation of the skill. In any other game that does not take quite so much pride in trying to greatly reinforce the Live Action 'if you can do it you can do it' whenever possible, it probably wouldn't jump out at me quite so much, but on the surface it just smacks a lot of a tabletopish mechanism that, while adding fun flavor, takes a little too much suspension of disbelief for what it brings, to me anyway. Considering I don't currently even know any character in the game (that I've run across in 5 chapters anyway) that is going to qualify for using it, I don't know how much I'll run across it anyway :lol: so we'll just wait and see I guess.

 

[Sunnfire]

There are 2 to my knowledge.

 

[markusdark]

There are 2 to my knowledge.

And with the revamp of characters, I'm planning on making one of my characters a Master Scrollsmith.

 

[obcidian_bandit]

First, they are in fact transitions lenses, not sunglasses. Secondly, I can't see clearly at more than 5 feet away without my glasses. Thirdly, I am quite photosenisitve due to a genetic condition in my eyes, so bright lights hurt a LOT.

1: Chill out.
2: I don't care why you're wearing sunglasses, normal glasses, transitioning glasses, moon goggles, beer goggles, knee braces, dental crowns, royal crowns, Crown Royal, or a Royale with Cheese. It doesn't matter to me. Some people prefer to wear transitioning glasses in the place of their regular glasses. I don't care. Don't justify it to me, I won't care any less if its for medical reasons or for personal preference.

I won't use any pictures [...] which have anachronisms....

Your glasses are tinted, they are sunglasses. I can tell that they're tinted in the picture, making them more anachronistic then the other pairs of glasses in the picture. I've always thought that orcs, ogres, and barbarians looked funny in glasses (and there's one of those in that picture, too), but the players don't have a terrible amount of control of that situation. What we do have control of is whether or not we're portraying our game as a group of dudes who run around in the woods in sunglasses or not. I recently had to have a discussion with a new player about why sunglasses (not prescription, regular, plastic sunglasses) aren't appropriate. As soon as that player sees that picture, I'm going to have to have the conversation again. I don't want to. I want new players to have the impression that people do away with as many anachronisms as possible. Sometimes there are exceptions; some people wear glasses, hearing aides, transitioning lenses, play near cars, stay in modern looking buildings, and all sorts of other things. We shouldn't be highlighting those in the book, we should be accepting them when they happen.