New Rule Book Comment Thread

youthculture said:
Sunnfire said:
Funny, Gareth and I never got laughed at.
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I did. :(
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She rarely gets laughed at in game. It's was the out of game perspective. "You made a what? Now why would you do that when Earth Templars are more powerful and useful right away?"

Though, I've always made my characters for rp purposes and not for powergaming. Celestial Templars are just sexy. <nods>
 
Except lvl as an adventuerer has NOTHING to do with how diciplined a mind may be. Yeah, maybe he can wipe your mind at 3rd lvl, he just can't beat you in a fight. Low lvl doesn't mean young, or powerless. Expecialy for races that live 500+ years.
--bill
 
true, but how would it be regulated then?

I am more happy to see the abilities clearly defined so everyone knows how to react to them IG.
 
That may be true, but EVERY other skill in the game is regulated by what happens to your character from the first time they step into game until the day they perm, not by what they did before becoming an adventurer with the exception of Craftsman skills, but even they are subjective and don't actually grant you any IG abilities aside from what a plot team may decide to allow you, but that's another kettle. Character history and background has no influence on how skilled you are at any other thing that is regulated by rules, and this change was designed to bring the mind powers more into line with the other rules than they have been, so they had to base them off some form of character progression as an adventurer. Yes, it probably would have made more sense to base mind power advancement by character level than on build expenditure given that it is still an entirely RP based effect and can be ignored by a player for any reason at any time (look! another kettle *grin*), but it isn't so now we see just how much it impacts the game and adjust accordingly down the road.
 
Before I respond to Chazz, please realize that no matter what the rule, there will always be someone who thinks it's the greatest thing in the world and others who think it will ruin the game and cause the Four Horsemen to appear and destroy the planet.

This is one of the reasons we don't post any rules changes before the book comes out -- to prevent these kinds of arguments. I have no problem explaining why we decided these things afterwards though.

Chazz said:
--How does a 2 buld racial become capable of resisting/ removing a Greater Command while a 4 build skill does not?
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I haven't the slightest idea. The real answer is because "the owners voted it that way." Please note that I strongly objected to this but lost the vote. :D


Chazz said:
Although I find the defining of mental abilites pretty cool I question the "racials required" part. It should be more along "build spent in racials." ie. a character with 2 resists and 4 breaks should be as capable of the same mental powers as 8 break guy.
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Once more, this was a compromise that got through the Owners. You know, that kind of stuff happens in a democracy. :)

Chazz said:
Could we PLEASE get a High Ogre for the High Ogre picture? As cool as Air Raksa may be I've seen him Drained too many times to believe he is an Ogre.
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I refer you to the numerous posts I did begging people to send me pictures over the last year, using that as one of the primary examples.

Chazz said:
Other than the above I am highly impressed. Layout was well done. Pictures, mostly, well chosen. The rearrangement works better IMHO for new players to read the stuff thats really important.
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Thanks!
 
Like I said, tho not perfect, basing it off of character lvls in my mind is the best way to have done it. And I completly agree that standardizing the abilities was a nessesary move. To counter your point, you say "...not by what they did before becoming an adventurer.." and "... it is still an entirely RP based effect and can be ignored by a player for any reason at any time..." Backstory and character history are ENTIERLY rp. They have no fuctional benifit. Mind powers are the same way BECAUSE of the fact anyone can at any time for any reason ignore them. Just Like I can ignore your backstory.
--bill
 
Flyaway Bird said:
And remember kids, "dryads" prefer to be called Children of Autumn! :D

The book looks great -- it's nice to see some new faces in the pictures. Chazz as a dwarf is A+.
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The Dryad racial picture is quite awesome too I must add. :D
 
Oops.
 
I sopose an age comment here would be inappropriate.
--bill
 
dreadpiratebill said:
Like I said, tho not perfect, basing it off of character lvls in my mind is the best way to have done it. And I completly agree that standardizing the abilities was a nessesary move. To counter your point, you say "...not by what they did before becoming an adventurer.." and "... it is still an entirely RP based effect and can be ignored by a player for any reason at any time..." Backstory and character history are ENTIERLY rp. They have no fuctional benifit. Mind powers are the same way BECAUSE of the fact anyone can at any time for any reason ignore them. Just Like I can ignore your backstory.
--bill
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I agree with this, but hopefully now that its regulated more people will be less inclined to ignore the rp, as it a more refined element of the game. i think alot of the reason it has been ignored in the past is possible confusion about the whole thing. Being clearly defined in the rules may get people who have ignored the rp in the past the push to play into it more and accept the rp. I know not everyone will, but i certainly look forward to reading the rules so that if the opportunity presents itself I know how to react and rp accordingly.
 
I don't think you have accurately assessed the effects that some of these parts in the beginning will have on new players, especially those that have never LARPed before. I think it's important to emphasize that the game is about roleplaying, and that rules are merely there to facilitate that, and I've always liked the distinction placed between your character perhaps being dishonorable, and the player always playing in an honest way, but your five minutes hate on "rules gnomes" and "rules lawyers" does not help that case, and I actually think the negative tone will lose you new players. I haven't read all the way through the new edition yet, but if it's like the old edition, this talk will come up later. I think it's entirely possible to get across that marshalls will sometimes make rulings that don't match the letter of the rule, but match their original intent, without saying "Rules Lawyers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law." To me, that discourages knowledge of the rules system, because if you use that knowledge, people will just accuse you of lawyering.

You might think that this only scares away the kind of lawyers and gnomes that we don't want playing with us, but I have to respectfully disagree. Especially to a new player, what determines how he or she will act within a world and rules system has more to do with the culture of other players than any intrinsically lawyeristic personality traits. Had I been in a different mood when I read the old rulebook, I might have been scared away myself, and... well, you'll have to consult with the people in Oregon that I've played with, but I like to think I'm fun and improve the game experience for others.

You may think that I'm way off-base, and that your experience dealing with lawyers and gnomes tells you that it's best to nip that kind of behavior in the bud (ie, before you see it). I can really only give you the experience and perspective of one pseudo-new player, but I think anyone can agree that it does not make your organization sound any friendlier. I was pleased, despite my fears, with the friendly treatment I was given in my first event with Alliance Oregon, but I think I'd still be a little intimidated to play with you, Mike.
 
The man NPCs more than he plays, nothing to fear! ;)
 
Shane said:
Dreamingfurther said:
The Dryad racial picture is quite awesome too I must add. :D
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Also, the gorgeous stone elf in the Races section makes me want to move to ... whatever state that is. And play ... whatever chapter that is. Just sayin'.
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Rofl, wicked what Bill said. She was a page until last year, dude!
 
Chazz said:
--Was blocking one-handed with a staff not implemented?

--Celestial casters still have the same problem. Although some things a going to help raise them up the core problem of not being able to do the math quickly still remains. Don't believe me? Try it yourself, add the damage to the end of the vebal and watch as the NPC's drop when they realize that 'Lightning Storm 30, Lightning Storm 30 , Dragon's Breath 40' is 100 points of damage. Not to mention that doing it that way virtually guarantees never casting too quickly.



--Chazz
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for the first one I thought the same thing...but if you look on or around page 95 where the chart for weapon building is..in the description of staff there it states that you can block with one hand with staff....I had to dig to find that one...

for the other one...I have mixed feelings on this one...I've played in the game where you need to state what the damage or healing the spell does when you cast it...I can see how it would help...and could you do that anyway?? or would that be called a blown incant?? just a thought...

-
 
As long as you have completed the words necessary for the spell to be cast, you can say anything afterwards. A damage call after the incant should not ruin the incant.
 
I thought the stuff on marrying another race in the elf section was weird. It says they discourage marriages with non-elves because it hurts to lose someone who's not going to live very long. But they also talk about temporary marriages... So there's a pretty good chance (if you brookmate or whatever) of getting out before the other person dies.
 
Speaking as another biata, I am very glad the mental abilities have now been clearly defined. I would agree that BP spent on racials is a better guide than number of racial abilities, but either way I'm glad there is a defined progression now. I remember asking about this through the years and getting a wide variety of answers, as though there was a system but it had never been flushed out or incorporated into the standardized rules. I never really had anyone refuse to RP the mind abilities, but there was always a very lengthy oog discussion trying to decide what was going to happen first. There have also been some lengthy discussions with a plot member or two trying to figure out what my biata should be capable of as he gained levels through the years. Bill, I totally get where you're coming from. But that's a consequence of us rp'ing our characters without solid guidelines all this time. Biata and Stone elves who come into game now are going to have a much easier time incorporating these abilties into their character and rp and I am thankful for that.

As for the other rules changes... all in all a big thumbs up. High Magic... awesome! Really looking forward to that.

I share Chazz's longing for damage calls after spells. Played with it before and it makes combat much less confusing. Not a biggie though.

I do have a spell question.... Why was Light made Celestial only? I know that seems like such a small thing, but it strangely irks me that formal earth ritualists can build circles of power but they can't conjure a light to read their scrolls by.

Love the change to blade spells. And I'm glad the races sections got flushed out.

New system is really looking great, can't wait to get rolling with it next month.
 
Light was changed to celestial only in the last edition. Previously it was earth only. Frankly I don't think it made much sense to be in earth in the first place. Celestial casters have all the other eldritch force spells (wall of force, ward, wizard lock) it made sense that they should also have light. Mages are the conjurers. They pull things from their environment to create ice bolts, stone storms, magical barriers and the like. Conjuring up a light should be their domain as well. The only one that is shared is circle of power.
 
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