Wylderkin racial choices

[MissDragGunn]

I honestly go back and forth on extinct animals. I want (SO BAD) to make a stegosaur-kin, but I can't justify how to roleplay it because we have no idea what it's actual behaviors were. That's saying nothing of the headache I would be giving my local plot team by forcing them to integrate something into the world that the PCs have never encountered and NPCs have never referenced. (It could be as simple as "there are weird lizardmen living in this swamp way out on the map," but at the end of the day I'd rather build something using the world as it exists so I can immerse myself rather than play something bonkers and have to have the other players deal with my weirdo.

Once upon a time I really wanted to a carnotaurus-kin and I got rejected all the way around. Which brings me to my next point. Let's say you were approved for your Dino in one chapter, you are now not allowed to travel to another chapter unless your kin is approved there. Which is completely wrong. And same goes for racials. Which is believe is wrong. This is why I believe a revamp is needed, we need a rule/guidelines that is universal about EVERYTHING with wylderkin so we don't run into these issues. I do believe if someone can play a saber tooth tiger sarr, an extinct animal kin, or the such. Dinosaur should be approved as well. But sadly it's not and Im confused why this is swept under the rug.

 

[norman b]

Once upon a time I really wanted to a carnotaurus-kin and I got rejected all the way around. Which brings me to my next point. Let's say you were approved for your Dino in one chapter, you are now not allowed to travel to another chapter unless your kin is approved there. Which is completely wrong. And same goes for racials. Which is believe is wrong. This is why I believe a revamp is needed, we need a rule/guidelines that is universal about EVERYTHING with wylderkin so we don't run into these issues. I do believe if someone can play a saber tooth tiger sarr, an extinct animal kin, or the such. Dinosaur should be approved as well. But sadly it's not and Im confused why this is swept under the rug.

The post about Dinokin never said you couldn't make it. It simply stated to try and instead you settled on "Nobody wants a dinosaur it seems like". That was not anyone's opinion but yours.
http://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/race-and-traveling.28535/#post-240626

Your background needs to be approved for any race and, as people have stated, the plot team will work with you to get something workable. Many Plot members have even said with a compelling arguement for your racials and type of kin, they would allow it. Is there a problem you see with local plot teams? You seem to have a lack of faith in the Plot teams. Every arguement you pose is hinging on a Militant-non-flexible plot team.

People should really get behind this:

"Before you give up on a character idea, talk to your plot team"

And in my experience with plot teams, they have been pretty friendly and willing to work with ideas.

 

[Toddo]

Or we just say "you can only play animals that currently exist on Earth (cryptids don't count, get your chupacabra nonsense outta my face). Wylderkin may choose two build-buyable abilities from the list of allowable racial abilities available to any Alliance race. Once chosen and entered into the logistics database they cannot be changed barring a Racial Transformation ritual you jerk."

Owners: please put this verbatim into the next rulebook.

 

[Inaryn]

But Toddo, what if I waana play a Tasmanian wolf or a dodo bird, or some other recently extinct animal that we actually have documented accounts of appearance and behavior on? #beingajerkface

 

[Avaran]

Let's say you were approved for your Dino in one chapter, you are now not allowed to travel to another chapter unless your kin is approved there. Which is completely wrong. And same goes for racials. Which is believe is wrong.

You are incorrect. An approved character from one chapter (kyn or otherwise) is allowed in (Alliance and all); plot has some leeway to change cards, however. I would strongly suggest contacting your chapter owner or GM or even the Alliance Chair if this has happened so they may investigate the matter.

Please note the passage in the ARB quoted in the below link (which was mentioned earlier in the thread and seemingly glossed over or mis-read by you) says "your character's skills" not "your character". That is a significant difference.

Please see this ARC ruling on the matter:
http://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/kyn-and-plot.28537/#post-241295

For my own experience as Plot / Head of Plot, I have never disallowed a character coming into OR from another chapter that was approved by another staff - I have disallowed a racial once (which I mentioned earlier in this thread), and I have disallowed a Magic Item here and there (maybe twice, I think), but that is it.

At the end of the day, I don't see a difference between a Dino Kin and any other Kin; either way, the player is going to latch onto an aspect of the animal they like or are drawn to, and use that to give their Kin character/personality, etc. It's fun to watch, and I don't see that being markedly different from a Dino kin - who cares if we don't know their behaviors? Part of the fun for the player (and me, if I am being honest), is seeing all of the creative ways players play their Kin. You can have two Camel Kin and both can have utterly different different personalities, Racial abilities, and even coloring/costuming, and that's perfectly reasonable and okay.

I don't see characters reacting any differently to a Dino Kin than they would a Crow Kin. My character has never seen a Sloth Kin (much less a sloth) why should that be any different with an extinct animal race?

 

[MissDragGunn]

I have written chapters about the dinosaur kin. In fact i was willing to go to every single chapters plot team to ask. However it stopped me in my tracks when I was told that if approved, I can not travel to a chapter that doesn't approve. So, yes I have lost faith. It is wrong for a char to be put into the data base and refused the right to travel with that char. And wylderkin are 99.9% expereincing this issue with maybe, JUST MAYBE saber tooth tiger sarr

 

[Eadar]

 

[MissDragGunn]

I think the above post covered it

 

[MissDragGunn]

Black and white. You can travel as your Dino but a chapter has the right to temp alter your character. Basically telling to cut down on your Dino look and be called a lizard kin. Got it. More loop holes. But when all is said and done. Your Dino can't travel. which is why guidelines. In fact, I like the idea of putting in the rule book "animals currently on earth". As well as coming up with a cement ruling on racials and what are the expectations so we don't have to run into a chapter by chapter basis for these characters

 

[Avaran]

I have written chapters about the dinosaur kin. In fact i was willing to go to every single chapters plot team to ask. However it stopped me in my tracks when I was told that if approved, I can not travel to a chapter that doesn't approve. So, yes I have lost faith. It is wrong for a char to be put into the data base and refused the right to travel with that char. And wylderkin are 99.9% expereincing this issue with maybe, JUST MAYBE saber tooth tiger sarr

You are not reading what is clearly stated:

You are incorrect. An approved character from one chapter (kyn or otherwise) is allowed in (Alliance and all); plot has some leeway to change cards, however. I would strongly suggest contacting your chapter owner or GM or even the Alliance Chair if this has happened so they may investigate the matter.

Please note the passage in the ARB quoted in the below link (which was mentioned earlier in the thread and seemingly glossed over or mis-read by you) says "your character's skills" not "your character". That is a significant difference.

Please see this ARC ruling on the matter:
http://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/kyn-and-plot.28537/#post-241295

and other
Alliance games have the right to refuse your
character’s skills if they are not reasonable.

Refusing or changing your character's skills, is not the same as refusing your character.

Black and white. You can travel as your Dino but a chapter has the right to temp alter your character. Basically telling to cut down on your Dino look and be called a lizard kin. Got it. More loop holes. But when all is said and done. Your Dino can't travel. which is why guidelines. In fact, I like the idea of putting in the rule book "animals currently on earth". As well as coming up with a cement ruling on racials and what are the expectations so we don't have to run into a chapter by chapter basis for these characters

Please read more carefully; I am beginning to feel that I am wasting my time trying to help you understand that your current assessment of that situation is incorrect. At worst, your Racial Abilities for a Dino Kin could be changed (though not likely), but the character would still be allowed to transfer and you'd still be a "Dino kin" not a Lizard Kin (imho), nor should you be required to change your costuming (that's just asinine) or behaviors.

Note that characters may see you as a Lizard Kin, but then, those would be ignorant characters (purposefully or otherwise); there is no rule against my character calling your Dino Kin a Monkey Kin; whether to upset your character or for whatever reason. But don't take that as OOG chapter staff snuffing your idea.

 

[norman b]

^^^ Racial abilities are the only thing going to be changed, not your character.

 

[Durnic]

(cryptids don't count, get your chupacabra nonsense outta my face).

But what about my Chalupacabrakin, the sucker-of-tasty-beef?

I have written chapters about the dinosaur kin. In fact i was willing to go to every single chapters plot team to ask. However it stopped me in my tracks when I was told that if approved, I can not travel to a chapter that doesn't approve. So, yes I have lost faith. It is wrong for a char to be put into the data base and refused the right to travel with that char. And wylderkin are 99.9% expereincing this issue with maybe, JUST MAYBE saber tooth tiger sarr

As Avaran stated above, this is disallowed according to the ARC. Your racial abilities may be changed if a Plot team you are traveling to doesn't want one or both of them, but if your character is approved by your Plot team then they cannot disallow you from traveling with that character in its entirety. If this has actually happened to you, I would contact the Alliance Chairman or your own Plot team and have this escalated.

As a complete aside, I don't care what racials you chose for your 'Kin and I don't, personally, feel like they should need Plot approval. I think it is such a teeny-tiny balance issue as to be no-existent. If you want to play a Slothkin because sloths are your favorite animal then go for it. If you think that Racial Dodge and Resist Magic give you the best chance of surviving as said Slothkin, that doesn't bother me in the slightest. This is a world where people can heal you from having your head cut off with a very simple magical spell and other people can fire jets of flames out of their hands. If one Sloth can get some burst of speed for a second to dodge a spell, that doesn't seem very crazy to me at all.

Edit: Whoa baby this thread is movin' fast now.

 

[Draven]

You are incorrect. An approved character from one chapter (kyn or otherwise) is allowed in (Alliance and all); plot has some leeway to change cards, however. I would strongly suggest contacting your chapter owner or GM or even the Alliance Chair if this has happened so they may investigate the matter.

Please note the passage in the ARB quoted in the below link (which was mentioned earlier in the thread and seemingly glossed over or mis-read by you) says "your character's skills" not "your character". That is a significant difference.

Please see this ARC ruling on the matter:
http://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/kyn-and-plot.28537/#post-241295

This is incorrect. ARC's ruling was that Plot has the ability to authorize a change of cards, -not- that it has a requirement to do so if they disagree with the skills on the card.

Plot could absolutely refuse the card's skills, and also refuse to change them, meaning the character is not allowed in that chapter. That, at the very least, would be my interpretation. There's a difference between an ARC ruling stating that Plot has the ability to do something, and the obligation to do something.

 

[B.Barber]

Seems reasonable enough to me "Your home chapter approved this character because it works for them- but we dont feel like this character works with our game. please dont bring it."... Alliance has the option for chapters to have point caps, its seems fair theres measures in place to manage this aspect too if a chapter so chooses. To each their own and whatnot.

 

[norman b]

This is incorrect. ARC's ruling was that Plot has the ability to authorize a change of cards, -not- that it has a requirement to do so if they disagree with the skills on the card.

Plot could absolutely refuse the card's skills, and also refuse to change them, meaning the character is not allowed in that chapter. That, at the very least, would be my interpretation. There's a difference between an ARC ruling stating that Plot has the ability to do something, and the obligation to do something.

ARC doesn't state Plot is obligated. It states that Plot may do it, just a clarification. How is Adam incorrect?

 

[Draven]

Adam is incorrect (in my opinion), in his use of the ARC ruling as evidence that Plot is obligated to change a character's skills if they disagree with the racial picks. Plot is not obligated to authorize a skill change, nor is any Chapter obligated to perform a skill change on a character. Ergo, if Plot refuses a Kyn's skills, and the card is not edited, the result is that the card is being refused. The skills would remain on the card, so it's that player's right to use them if the card is allowed to be played as-is.

ARC's clarification was not that "Plot can refuse skills, but must alter the card." ARC's clarification was that "Plot can alter a card, if it wants to."

 

[norman b]

Ergo, if Plot refuses a Kyn's skills, and the card is not edited, the result is that the card is being refused.

This is incorrect. The card is not being refused. Only the skills. This is not a magic item, portions can be refused (per ARB and ARC) and still be used in the chapter

 

[Draven]

This is incorrect. The card is not being refused. Only the skills. This is not a magic item, portions can be refused (per ARB and ARC) and still be used in the chapter

Please show me where either ARC or the ARB state that a portion of a card can be used during an event.

Edit: Moreover, restricting Racial Prof, specifically, but allowing the card can potentially have a cascading effect on the card (by rendering the card ineligible for PTDs/Parry/Riposte). I don't think the ARB intends for that to be possible.

 

[Muir]

I cannot disagree with you more on the topic of fantasy animals being allowed (as far as I am aware, extinct animals are allowed; I've never disallowed an animal kyn that is extinct, anyway).

Part of my reasoning for disagreeing with you is one of your points in favor of it: Story.

Like it or not, Fantasy animals exist in our game - from Griffins to Dragons, and many things in between.

These creatures have decades of history and story that revolve around them, and control unprecedented power in and around the world of Fortannis and its many lands. When a player is allowed to be a "dragon-kin"*, they will (rightfully or not) expect to have some kind of special relationship with their namesake, which potentially leads to a PC having access to things they should not. No level 1 PC should EVER feel they have a special connection with a dragon just because they are a "dragon-kin"; and as a Plot person, I HAVE had to curtail that crap from brand new players who either skimmed past that section of the book, or were willfully ignorant of it. Because more often than not, players looking for that sort of character are looking to game the system and powergame because they know that Dragons offer something special to the story and to the world, and just being associated it gives them an advantage over other players (not just characters).

I think that the purpose and spirit behind disallowing "fantasy" creatures is to ensure both racial AND *story* balance. Just like a character can't be a Prince or Princess with direct access to their Father's 60-Ritual Artifact Sword called "Stupid Concept From The Start" which is famous far and wide as the most powerful item in all of Fortannis, players should not be allowed to be some kind of distant cousin to some of the most powerful creatures Fortannis has ever seen. Just no.




*I bring up Dragon-kin because that is by far and away the "mythical" Kin most often asked about in my experience.

Honest statement, as a long-term player I'd go back to playing full-makeup 'kin in a minute if I could get away with a gryphon-kin, once I figured out a good beak rep. The costuming would be a ton of fun, and in ~10 years I've never even seen an actual griffin in game. Met several dragons, though.

Thing is, a dragon-kin would essentially be in the same place as D&D kobalds. Sure, they have draconic blood... but that doesn't mean anything other than an overinflated sense of self-worth.

 

[Dan Nickname Beshers]

Speaking for myself, neither I or my staff would disallow a character over anything like this. As I said, just let the game be fun.