[.11] Time to Get a New Life

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I think you guys are looking at this in a vacuum of life spells and being dead. There will be 225 points of healing in a column vs the current 67. That's 3x the current body. With the addition of extra body (Hardy) and extra armor (62 max), trust in your plot teams they won't come out just slinging deaths/corrupts at everyone. They do so now because magic item bloat is a thing. Cloaks and banes are a thing. All those protectives (which will still be things) are a thing. I think life isn't going to be as needed.

Adding a production version reverses the team work we are trying to encourage with 2.0. "Who has a life? I have 75 life potions. I think we are good with just spellswords and fighters, thanks scholars." How is that any different than it is now? Don't take the capstone's away from Earth Scholars. Otherwise we should add in a prison poison or prison trap globe. (Obviously not a good idea)
Life is a frickin’ terrible capstone, because it creates an exclusive effect with social expectations upon the caster.

At least it was reversible in 1.3 to a non-illegal Spell. It doesn’t even have that in .11.

If you have your primary Earth casters memorize a couple rebirths each and memorize no other Life spells, I promise you those guys’ll get complaints. When was the last time a C caster received a complaint about not memorizing enough Prisons?
 

Alavatar

Baron
From what I understand, there have been many arguments made over the years that Death in Alliance is meaningless because of the prevalence of Life spells, Regeneration, and Controlled Spirit Store. Of those effects, only Life is (a) commonly available, and (b) has the social expectation for someone to focus their character on, as Evan noted.

Solution? Remove Life from the game. Make the bleed-out 10 minutes. Make "Death/Doom" reduce the bleed-out to 1 minute.

Or, accept that players like playing their characters and stop worrying about how meaningful/meaningless Death is; allow Life to be made as a Potion. It is a freaking game meant to be fun, so let people enjoy playing their characters and allow them opportunities to mitigate risk.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Or, accept that players like playing their characters and stop worrying about how meaningful/meaningless Death is; allow Life to be made as a Potion. It is a freaking game meant to be fun, so let people enjoy playing their characters and allow them opportunities to mitigate risk.
<3 <3 <3
 
I think you guys are looking at this in a vacuum of life spells and being dead. There will be 225 points of healing in a column vs the current 67. That's 3x the current body. With the addition of extra body (Hardy) and extra armor (62 max), trust in your plot teams they won't come out just slinging deaths/corrupts at everyone. They do so now because magic item bloat is a thing. Cloaks and banes are a thing. All those protectives (which will still be things) are a thing. I think life isn't going to be as needed.
In my experience (I understand regional differences exist), the vast majority of deaths don't happen because healing isn't available. They happen because appropriate healing can't reach the person in the time limit. A one minute time limit is rather tight in many situations and after that the new time limit requires a resource that only exists in one form: Life.

Personally, I want to see that state repairable by other resources (preferably in a less efficient way by things that aren't Life), thus removing the giant leap in power that exists between getting access to Life and not having it. I'm even willing to see the time limit for getting that state (dying / death) lowered if more things can affect it than Life.

-MS
 

Ardos

Artisan
South Michigan Staff
I hate to point out the obvious, but why not have spell stores with 1 life in it? 50 gobbies for literally anyone to have the peace of mind that the old per day items gave. Based on the description of item conversion so far, that's likely what it will become anyway.
 

tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
Spell stores start out each Logistics period empty. It doesn’t make any new life spells, it just lets you carry around someone else’s.
 

Ardos

Artisan
South Michigan Staff
New goblin points spending options were just made available. For 50 gobbies grab a life in your spell store once a weekend if that's really a big deal.
Recharge spell store - 50 Goblin stamps for 10 levels of spell store. ( Spells may be split between different items and schools. ) This may only be purchased once per weekend.
 

Muir

Fighter
Interesting thought. I like how it tightens things up thematically, though it does weaken things there slightly as it means Earth Scholars don’t have as clear of a capstone ability as do other classes. But I can live with that.

As for potions potentially trivializing death, in my chapter at least, I’ve rarely if ever seen people rez for lack of Life spells. It’s generally either for plot reasons in some fashion, or because we’ve screwed up our tactics in some manner. And I do like having a purchasable option for Life spells. It gives lower level Earth casters more build flexibility rather than feeling like they have to race to 9th level spells so their group doesn’t die.
Anecdotally, this rings very true to me. I have rarely seen anyone rez for lack of a life spell being available, just because they were being kept in hand for someone 'more important'.

Then the have nots will rise up and knock the haves down a couple of pegs (In theory)! Not sure how it's done elsewhere, but in Calgary, it's a 'First Dead, First Served' kinda thing. Nobody saves life spells (that I am aware of).
Respectfully, that will never happen. The power gradient is too steep. Your average well kitted out high level character would be a walking town wipe if they decided to go after the mid and low level characters.

People quit rather than put themselves in a PvP situation they can't win, because those with the power have the ability to make their weekend a nightmare (that they paid for the privilege of attending) if they feel like it.
 
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tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
New goblin points spending options were just made available. For 50 gobbies grab a life in your spell store once a weekend if that's really a big deal.
Yeah. I saw them. Gobbies are for buying build, not spending 50 of them an event to fill up a magic item, that you still have to get anyways.

If there is concern about people not having the ability to cast life spells from memory, the solution offered shouldn’t be, “get this magic item instead.”
 

Ardos

Artisan
South Michigan Staff
the solution offered shouldn’t be, “get this magic item instead.”
The solution I suggested was for the suggested people loosing magic items with healing. The rules are converting old magic items into new ones and if gobbies are such a privilege in your area, either consider a different way to donate to your local chapter or consider npcing. I understand that purchasing a fill on a spell store isn't for everyone, but how is paying for life potions any better besides making them more abundant. In this hypothetical situation (as far as I know no one has actually tested this set of rules) the lack of life spells means less killing blow active and death effect enemies (also suggested by removing controlled spirit store). I am not a 20+ year veteran. I am not talking about going to any hayday time of less town life spells, I'm just faithful as someone who plays most of the year and runs occasional guest plots that individual plot teams will abide by the same new rules we do.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Yeah. I saw them. Gobbies are for buying build, not spending 50 of them an event to fill up a magic item, that you still have to get anyways.

If there is concern about people not having the ability to cast life spells from memory, the solution offered shouldn’t be, “get this magic item instead.”
Respectfully, Goblin Stamps are just a way of saying “Thanks for your contribution,” and while I understand where you’re coming from, it’s not really your place to decide how they should be spent.

I’m not trying to be mean or anything, but I hope you can understand how someone might take your comment as a bit condescending.
 

Gorphy

Newbie
I would like to see an effect that brings a dead or bleeding-out character back to the beginning of the bleed-out timer.
Then a low level character could say "Begin first aid." while a higher level character with channeling could say "Ten elemental healing." to get the person back up immediately by spending extra resources.
 

Joseph Smith

Artisan
I would like to see an effect that brings a dead or bleeding-out character back to the beginning of the bleed-out timer.
Then a low level character could say "Begin first aid." while a higher level character with channeling could say "Ten elemental healing." to get the person back up immediately by spending extra resources.
Seconded. Maybe a lower level Earth spell that helps people not die, say as long as the caster keeps roleplaying healing (like rping first aid). At the end of that time, their count starts over. Make it a 3rd or 4th level spell. Something rather low that isn't broken. Caster is "out of the fight" when they start the spell, and very vulnerable until someone with a Life spell gets to them. Needs both defenders and a messenger to fetch a bigger healer. Bam. Teamwork-inducing. Less unnecessary death because Life spells aren't RIGHT THERE. RIGHT NOW. Plus: imagine the drama of it.

-JT
 

Feldor

Scholar
<removed for misunderstanding the effect>
 
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Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I'd be fine with a "reset to bleed out" spell. I don't know where I'd put such a spell, but since it's pretty close to a Life (it's literally just 2 points of healing below a Life spell), I'd probably put it around 5th or 6th.
 

Muir

Fighter
It's close to a life, but at the same time it doesn't get the target back up without another spell, which considerably reduces its power.
 

Feldor

Scholar
It might be interesting to consider having it be something that like "when cast on a dead body, the body will be returned to the bleeding state and will be enfeebled". So they aren't dead, but they also aren't going to be fighting for a bit, even if stood up. This might also make it more reasonable to have it be at lower level.
 

sencara

Artisan
I think it would be cool to have something like this. But instead of a full life spell I think the reset to bleed out would be a good potionable item. As it is something that can be shattered with an explosive trap.

As a primary merchant and potions crafter. This would be a big factor of adding for potion crafters. And the ability to craft it could just be avaliable to Master crafters. Make it like something as "Your skills in potion making allow you the skill to craft (blah blah) and that way there would be no need for a spell. This would limit the amount of people who could craft it.

And trust me adventurers are greedy bastards and likely would not want to fit the bill if the potion was expensive and would likely do without it. So inflation would likely not happen. As no one would pay for it if it was more than 3x cost.

Jorbie
 

Joseph Smith

Artisan
I think it would be cool to have something like this. But instead of a full life spell I think the reset to bleed out would be a good potionable item. As it is something that can be shattered with an explosive trap.

As a primary merchant and potions crafter. This would be a big factor of adding for potion crafters. And the ability to craft it could just be avaliable to Master crafters. Make it like something as "Your skills in potion making allow you the skill to craft (blah blah) and that way there would be no need for a spell. This would limit the amount of people who could craft it.

And trust me adventurers are greedy bastards and likely would not want to fit the bill if the potion was expensive and would likely do without it. So inflation would likely not happen. As no one would pay for it if it was more than 3x cost.

Jorbie
Yeah, but the idea behind adding the effect is supposed to rectify the pressure on Earth Casters to prepare Life and only Life. Or for low level casters to not be "competent" until they have their capstone ability. Or for character death not to become rampant with the removal of a bunch of healing. None of these are solved by making a Master-Tier potion.

I'm suggesting a change/addition to a lower level spell that lower-levels can cast that resets a death count to 0:01 (not bleed out) and is held there as long as the caster administers First Aid. So even if they are interrupted, there is still 5 minutes to get the downed character a Life spell anyway. All it does is delay character death so that a solution might be found. I think it favors low-level play but doesn't necessarily lose utility at higher level. It's dramatic, low-level and ultimately a stopgap for helping someone not die just because Life spells are in short supply. I could also see a higher level that sets a person from Dying to Bleed Out midway between this spell and Life. Make some sort of progression rather than Life/No Life.

Also, because I'm a Dr. Strange fan, I'd really like the first level to be called "Bargain." Then again, maybe not.

-JT
 
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