Bin Laden Dead!
- Thread starter EricMarsters
- Start date
Duke Frost
Baron
Steve posted a small excerpt to make his point. It's the only information I have. Big Macs and PS3s are a terrible choice to represent freedom and peace. I can only infer that Salman (being not a dumb man) chose those two things very purposefully when there are a million other things he could have chosen.
It also does not change the fact that a large portion of these people are from areas that live very much like it's still the 12th century. They herd goats in the mountains of Afghanistan, bake bread in primitive ovens with no chimneys, have no electricity and no running water. The only "media" they have is word of mouth. I'm not saying some of them are not good people, some surely are. But forcing our way of life on them, which is going downhill to say the least, is a flawed plan to make peace with them. Sending them big macs and video games would be a great way to "win the war" by making them weak and apathetic. We can give them all trophies and tell them they are all special and unique too.
It also does not change the fact that a large portion of these people are from areas that live very much like it's still the 12th century. They herd goats in the mountains of Afghanistan, bake bread in primitive ovens with no chimneys, have no electricity and no running water. The only "media" they have is word of mouth. I'm not saying some of them are not good people, some surely are. But forcing our way of life on them, which is going downhill to say the least, is a flawed plan to make peace with them. Sending them big macs and video games would be a great way to "win the war" by making them weak and apathetic. We can give them all trophies and tell them they are all special and unique too.
Valid points Scott. That last little point sort of fell out there. I probably should have deleted it
Rushdie's overall point was that the best way to help defeat the extremist agenda is to encourage their youth to be more liberal in thought... PS3s and Bic Macs were more of a symbol.
Rushdie's overall point was that the best way to help defeat the extremist agenda is to encourage their youth to be more liberal in thought... PS3s and Bic Macs were more of a symbol.
Besides, PSN is clearly not up to par with XBL. You get what you pay for, I suppose.
Ithica
Adept
I really wanted to avoid getting deeper into this... But seems like it isnt gonna happen..
I am so tired of seeing people get upset and offended over the most ridiculousness thing, and not just here on this post or this thread. It really seems people love to complain and claim being offended just for the sake of bitching.
During these arguments on this post, people have brought up Muslin Religion, and brought up points on how and why the USA as a hole should or not do something. We bring up, patience, fueling rage, and The Al Qaida claims of being holy warriors and this is a holy war, we also make reference to "might makes right" and how offensive it is...
Cold facts are this, USA is not a bunch of descendants from Monks. Stop acting like we are...
This country was taken/founded on "Might makes right".. The same founders declared independence from a country that used "might makes right" for years. Now we can claim "Hey its Holy war in the Enemies eyes, or whatever".. Bull ****... That's like Saying the crusades were holy wars.. But the phrase "God wills it" doesn't mean it is anything different... It was mostly a quest for greed and influence. And certain people wanted that treasure of King Solomon.
Never the less, Most of Europe prior to the Crusades, going back for 1000 years was taken over, conquered, or polluted with the mentality of "Might makes right". It is the NATURE of this country, we may fall behind or hide it every now and then... but dont forget its the nature of us as a Nation. Not saying we cant change or might change, not saying every person has to also have this mentality. But don't act all surprised or disgusted when it happens. There are many perks and benefits to living in the USA, look at Scotts post about electricity and running water. Think those perks and the way you get to live your life as an American came without some "Might makes right tactics" , you're only fooling yourself and living in a fantasy world.
I am not down grading anyones right to an opinion. But my opinion is this, I was happy to hear our presidents speech on his death, i was happy to go to bed after the speech. I was happy to see America's celebrating in the streets the next morning. And I could careless whether they killed OBL in self defense or out of pure Rage. He was an enemy, IMO his offense's caused him to lose his rights of any kind of "Rules of Warfare" tactics.
But I am also not driven on revenge, Sure i was happy he got killed, and happy they dumped him at sea. But i would of been happy to see him dragged through the Streets of NYC and stoned to death. But at the same time i didn't wake up each day hoping they killed him, Had the war ended 3 years ago and this guy was never found i would not of been upset. It didn't bring any closure or impact to my life in any kind of significant manner. (And i say this after I lost a Half brother at 9/11, then lost another brother in the War, who unfortunately was killed by friendly fire). It was just satisfactory moment at the time, a moment worth celebrating. And a moment that those as Americans who wanted to do so, should of been able to celebrate in the street, cry out "F-off OBL". and/or buy a video game that hunts this guy down.
And if people are offended by the post or the Game coming out, again don't buy the game. And don't click on a post titled " Osama Bin Laden is dead " then talk about how it offends you. Kinda like moving next to a pig **** farm, and then complaining it always smells like pig ****.
In the end everyone has a right to post or make comments, but dont twist **** around, or manipulate things that are said to try to better your argument or insult anyone.
And don't sit by and act like this country was founded or is currently run by a bunch of flower children either ( no offense hippies)... Your freedom and rights as an American have a "darker side"
The USA is doomed, and partly do to the fact to much energy is wasted on worrying about what other countries think or say about us, plus many other reasons and or Valid points of view... HOWEVER A video game hunting this guy down, or even a video game playing an Ewok, decapitating OBL then playing drums on his head WOULD HAVE NO impact what-so-ever on the this countries future FYI...
I am so tired of seeing people get upset and offended over the most ridiculousness thing, and not just here on this post or this thread. It really seems people love to complain and claim being offended just for the sake of bitching.
During these arguments on this post, people have brought up Muslin Religion, and brought up points on how and why the USA as a hole should or not do something. We bring up, patience, fueling rage, and The Al Qaida claims of being holy warriors and this is a holy war, we also make reference to "might makes right" and how offensive it is...
Cold facts are this, USA is not a bunch of descendants from Monks. Stop acting like we are...
This country was taken/founded on "Might makes right".. The same founders declared independence from a country that used "might makes right" for years. Now we can claim "Hey its Holy war in the Enemies eyes, or whatever".. Bull ****... That's like Saying the crusades were holy wars.. But the phrase "God wills it" doesn't mean it is anything different... It was mostly a quest for greed and influence. And certain people wanted that treasure of King Solomon.
Never the less, Most of Europe prior to the Crusades, going back for 1000 years was taken over, conquered, or polluted with the mentality of "Might makes right". It is the NATURE of this country, we may fall behind or hide it every now and then... but dont forget its the nature of us as a Nation. Not saying we cant change or might change, not saying every person has to also have this mentality. But don't act all surprised or disgusted when it happens. There are many perks and benefits to living in the USA, look at Scotts post about electricity and running water. Think those perks and the way you get to live your life as an American came without some "Might makes right tactics" , you're only fooling yourself and living in a fantasy world.
I am not down grading anyones right to an opinion. But my opinion is this, I was happy to hear our presidents speech on his death, i was happy to go to bed after the speech. I was happy to see America's celebrating in the streets the next morning. And I could careless whether they killed OBL in self defense or out of pure Rage. He was an enemy, IMO his offense's caused him to lose his rights of any kind of "Rules of Warfare" tactics.
But I am also not driven on revenge, Sure i was happy he got killed, and happy they dumped him at sea. But i would of been happy to see him dragged through the Streets of NYC and stoned to death. But at the same time i didn't wake up each day hoping they killed him, Had the war ended 3 years ago and this guy was never found i would not of been upset. It didn't bring any closure or impact to my life in any kind of significant manner. (And i say this after I lost a Half brother at 9/11, then lost another brother in the War, who unfortunately was killed by friendly fire). It was just satisfactory moment at the time, a moment worth celebrating. And a moment that those as Americans who wanted to do so, should of been able to celebrate in the street, cry out "F-off OBL". and/or buy a video game that hunts this guy down.
And if people are offended by the post or the Game coming out, again don't buy the game. And don't click on a post titled " Osama Bin Laden is dead " then talk about how it offends you. Kinda like moving next to a pig **** farm, and then complaining it always smells like pig ****.
In the end everyone has a right to post or make comments, but dont twist **** around, or manipulate things that are said to try to better your argument or insult anyone.
And don't sit by and act like this country was founded or is currently run by a bunch of flower children either ( no offense hippies)... Your freedom and rights as an American have a "darker side"
The USA is doomed, and partly do to the fact to much energy is wasted on worrying about what other countries think or say about us, plus many other reasons and or Valid points of view... HOWEVER A video game hunting this guy down, or even a video game playing an Ewok, decapitating OBL then playing drums on his head WOULD HAVE NO impact what-so-ever on the this countries future FYI...
Where did I say I was offended? I'm not; I'm glad the issue has been resolved. I just also want to be cognizant that no one's actions are performed in a vacuum, and that there are any number of people who hear about public beheadings and condemn an entire religion and people in their hearts, but are horribly insulted when the tables turn.
Duke Frost
Baron
"Monsters" win wars and keep us safe so we can type complete and utter crap on LARP message boards. God bless our "monsters".
I can post snazzy quotes too.
"Those who beat their swords into plowshares are doomed to plow for those who do not."
3,000 years of recorded history back up my quote.
Scott
I can post snazzy quotes too.
"Those who beat their swords into plowshares are doomed to plow for those who do not."
3,000 years of recorded history back up my quote.
Scott
i <3 Monsters too.
I'm just advocating that since we are at war... we may as well use tactics that are helpful.
All we accomplish with hateful acts is pushing people who are neutral onto the battlefield. By slowing the growth of their armies (even a little bit) we are helping reduce the violent effects of the war without doing anything.
I'm all for celebration. This is a big step. But, I just want us to do it in respectful ways. This isn't about bowing down to foreign powers. It's not even about being peaceful. It's about not doing the exact same thing our enemy does right after we call them savages.
Stephen
I'm just advocating that since we are at war... we may as well use tactics that are helpful.
All we accomplish with hateful acts is pushing people who are neutral onto the battlefield. By slowing the growth of their armies (even a little bit) we are helping reduce the violent effects of the war without doing anything.
I'm all for celebration. This is a big step. But, I just want us to do it in respectful ways. This isn't about bowing down to foreign powers. It's not even about being peaceful. It's about not doing the exact same thing our enemy does right after we call them savages.
Stephen
Ithica - I'm interested in why you feel the Crusades are such a fundamental portion of the US history and seem to be ignoring the Enlightenment, the Humanists, Civil Rights, and any of a number of other noble roots and outcomes. The "darker side" of American freedom is present in each generation, and each generation strives to quell those urges, turn them back, and reduce their impact.
While you may feel the US is rooted in the horror of the Crusades, I feel it is rooted in the sanctity of the Englightenment. Truth is, both events are part of the History which informed those who created the US, and both must be remembered. The past is done, how we decide interpret, grow, and create the future from that past is now.
Personally, I think we should strive to embrace ideals which lead us toward concepts like Civil Rights, Suffrage, and Humanitarian Relief and away from concepts like pogrom, religious slaughter, and imperialism. ¿Do you think indulging in play-murder is more likely to create fertile grounds for the former ideas or the later?
p.s. Robb - Yes, I find it creepy (I'm sleeping with the lights on tonight)
While you may feel the US is rooted in the horror of the Crusades, I feel it is rooted in the sanctity of the Englightenment. Truth is, both events are part of the History which informed those who created the US, and both must be remembered. The past is done, how we decide interpret, grow, and create the future from that past is now.
Personally, I think we should strive to embrace ideals which lead us toward concepts like Civil Rights, Suffrage, and Humanitarian Relief and away from concepts like pogrom, religious slaughter, and imperialism. ¿Do you think indulging in play-murder is more likely to create fertile grounds for the former ideas or the later?
p.s. Robb - Yes, I find it creepy (I'm sleeping with the lights on tonight)
Ithica
Adept
I only brought up the crusades, as a reference to Al Qaida claiming to be some big holy group, or are only motivated by "Ala wills it". Same **** was said by the pope and crusaders during the crusade. My point is just because people claim one thing, doesn't mean there are not other motivations or intentions.
I never said the US is rooted in horror.. again dont read into anything. I think sometimes translation gets lost in emails/ message boards.. I agree with your statement "The "darker side" of American freedom is present in each generation, and each generation strives to quell those urges, turn them back, and reduce their impact." But let me declare.. i am not unhappy about that darker side of America. I love life, and while i hate a lot of standards and things about this country and policies. I still love living here and enjoying what i can, regardless of how other countries perceive me or not. But regardless of how each generation may try or think they change, the world will always have a good and bad guy. And each side will always deal with the problem the best they know how.
I agree with some of the other stuff you said as well. specially "think we should strive to embrace ideals which lead us toward concepts like Civil Rights, Suffrage, and Humanitarian Relief and away from concepts like pogrom, religious slaughter, and imperialism. "
But at the end of the day I think we need to worry about this country and the problems within first. Im not saying don't help japan, or step in when other countries need help. But cut back on the outreach and help inside these borders first.
I want you to know this comment holds much weight with me... "¿Do you think indulging in play-murder is more likely to create fertile grounds for the former ideas or the later?"
While part of me says, we indulge in play murder all the time. These boards are set up on a game that has "play murder in it"......
It made me read this entire thread and peoples points of views a little different.
How Let me see if i can explain it. While I myself would think nothing about a game to hunt Bin Laden, then a past time and thrill of hunt. I DO now see why others might not, or might think its a big problem.
EXAMPLE:
I feel the media, entertainment and other sources like the News motivates some people. A famous movie star might turn to drugs because they are washed up, but now he sees a program on TV (VH1 Dr. Drew crap) and may think.. **** if i do drugs, i can be on TV. Or lets see, a bunch of High School kids go to school and shoot a bunch of people in the building. But the way the media portrays it, or other sources portray it is wrong. There is almost an instant forgiveness, or some sort of blame or 'excuse' why they did it. Then we make a movie about it, write a book, or do interviews with the guy from Jail. If we drag the kids who did the first shooting out into the streets, and whip them or hang them per say ( I AM ONLY MAKING AN EXAMPLE).. I bet it would do better to deter others from going to schools and shooting people.
But with Jerry , Maury and shows like that. It has almost become and accepted way of life. No accountability for these people fathering children and then running off, no lash backs. Because we have to many hand outs and to much forgiveness.
So i guess i have a better perspective on why some dislike the idea of this game, I guess i take it as some may feel that our "standards" are being stretched and our tolerance or expectation from our fellow Americans may be falling slightly each day, or each time a game like this is released.
But does that mena we should stop making movies about bank robbers. Did the Movie "Heat" ( A great movie btw) influence people to go rob a bank. Im sure some radical crazy fook somewhere came up with a plan. But most people watched the movie for what it was, entertainment, drama, a story with a satisfactory ending ( I for one feels the wrong person got shot at the end).
If this game was never made, or they came out and said "do to certain circumstances, this Game will not be made". I wouldn't care, I would probably call someone a ***** or something and move on.
Just like if a button could be pushed to make every gun in the world disappear. Being a gun owner, class 3 license, pistol permit, and a member of the NRA. I would still push that button in a second!
But since there is not a button. I might as well keep filling 30 round clips for my Ar-15 machine gun for when someone invades my house, or Zombies start to take over, whichever.
(Edited for profanity. -Paladin of Chaos)
I never said the US is rooted in horror.. again dont read into anything. I think sometimes translation gets lost in emails/ message boards.. I agree with your statement "The "darker side" of American freedom is present in each generation, and each generation strives to quell those urges, turn them back, and reduce their impact." But let me declare.. i am not unhappy about that darker side of America. I love life, and while i hate a lot of standards and things about this country and policies. I still love living here and enjoying what i can, regardless of how other countries perceive me or not. But regardless of how each generation may try or think they change, the world will always have a good and bad guy. And each side will always deal with the problem the best they know how.
I agree with some of the other stuff you said as well. specially "think we should strive to embrace ideals which lead us toward concepts like Civil Rights, Suffrage, and Humanitarian Relief and away from concepts like pogrom, religious slaughter, and imperialism. "
But at the end of the day I think we need to worry about this country and the problems within first. Im not saying don't help japan, or step in when other countries need help. But cut back on the outreach and help inside these borders first.
I want you to know this comment holds much weight with me... "¿Do you think indulging in play-murder is more likely to create fertile grounds for the former ideas or the later?"
While part of me says, we indulge in play murder all the time. These boards are set up on a game that has "play murder in it"......
It made me read this entire thread and peoples points of views a little different.
How Let me see if i can explain it. While I myself would think nothing about a game to hunt Bin Laden, then a past time and thrill of hunt. I DO now see why others might not, or might think its a big problem.
EXAMPLE:
I feel the media, entertainment and other sources like the News motivates some people. A famous movie star might turn to drugs because they are washed up, but now he sees a program on TV (VH1 Dr. Drew crap) and may think.. **** if i do drugs, i can be on TV. Or lets see, a bunch of High School kids go to school and shoot a bunch of people in the building. But the way the media portrays it, or other sources portray it is wrong. There is almost an instant forgiveness, or some sort of blame or 'excuse' why they did it. Then we make a movie about it, write a book, or do interviews with the guy from Jail. If we drag the kids who did the first shooting out into the streets, and whip them or hang them per say ( I AM ONLY MAKING AN EXAMPLE).. I bet it would do better to deter others from going to schools and shooting people.
But with Jerry , Maury and shows like that. It has almost become and accepted way of life. No accountability for these people fathering children and then running off, no lash backs. Because we have to many hand outs and to much forgiveness.
So i guess i have a better perspective on why some dislike the idea of this game, I guess i take it as some may feel that our "standards" are being stretched and our tolerance or expectation from our fellow Americans may be falling slightly each day, or each time a game like this is released.
But does that mena we should stop making movies about bank robbers. Did the Movie "Heat" ( A great movie btw) influence people to go rob a bank. Im sure some radical crazy fook somewhere came up with a plan. But most people watched the movie for what it was, entertainment, drama, a story with a satisfactory ending ( I for one feels the wrong person got shot at the end).
If this game was never made, or they came out and said "do to certain circumstances, this Game will not be made". I wouldn't care, I would probably call someone a ***** or something and move on.
Just like if a button could be pushed to make every gun in the world disappear. Being a gun owner, class 3 license, pistol permit, and a member of the NRA. I would still push that button in a second!
But since there is not a button. I might as well keep filling 30 round clips for my Ar-15 machine gun for when someone invades my house, or Zombies start to take over, whichever.
(Edited for profanity. -Paladin of Chaos)
Conallmactuagh
Newbie
I'm just going to throw this out here....but we were founded on "No taxation without representation"...which at the time was the Polar opposite of "might makes right".
Might, in this case, being the standing British armies and navies dedicated to keeping the colony's under British rule. We kind of Disagreed that that meant the king was Right..........
Might, in this case, being the standing British armies and navies dedicated to keeping the colony's under British rule. We kind of Disagreed that that meant the king was Right..........
Cpt.MarcusNelson
Newbie
Anyone else hope CoD puts out a "osama's compound raid" mission pack for Black Ops.
markusdark
Knight
Living with a rabbit that wants to kill me in my sleep, an ewok eating people's faces isn't all that disturbing...
Trouble with giving out 'freedom' in such a manner of "Big Macs and PS3s" is that often those that are the opressors will simply gather it up, keep it for themselves and use it to oppress those around them. Not to mention that it has happened time and again those that we give the aid to wind up becoming the dictators we have to deal with a decade later.
To go to the extreme here, my thought is that the moment that we knew who was responsible for 9/11 we should have bombed Osama's home city to rubble. The president should have gone onto the tv and told Afghanistan that they had 72 hours to produce him, dead or alive, or else the same would happen to the entire country. AFter the 72 hours, the country should have been carpet bombed and then another announcement - if Osama wasn't brought forth, the bombing would continue. If it is found out that Osama is living in another country, they had 72 hours to produce him or else the same fate would happen. If the national community had issue, we would tell them, "Fine, then no more aid from us and if you get in our way, you get the same."
Yes it would be hell on earth, literally. But as perhaps the most powerful military power in the world, we should either step up as the protective big brother we're trying to be and damn the consequences OR simply step aside and let the world collapse as it is going to do - turn a deaf ear to the genocides that are happening everywhere and build up from the ashes to follow in the decades to come. Let terrorists know that if they try to propagate their agendas through violence, violence will be returned in such a magnitude that there will be nothing left for them to follow their ideals.
I've never prescribed to the idea of if we fight fire with fire, we are just as bad as they are. When people ask me what would make me different than those that do the same thing, my response is that "I will stop doing it."
Note again, this is taking ideals to the absolute extreme but if you want to live in a black and white world like Star Wars, then by all means do it LIKE Star Wars and either start blowing up planets or space stations that carry the population of planets on it.
The Rebels didn't overthrow the Empire through sanctions.
Trouble with giving out 'freedom' in such a manner of "Big Macs and PS3s" is that often those that are the opressors will simply gather it up, keep it for themselves and use it to oppress those around them. Not to mention that it has happened time and again those that we give the aid to wind up becoming the dictators we have to deal with a decade later.
To go to the extreme here, my thought is that the moment that we knew who was responsible for 9/11 we should have bombed Osama's home city to rubble. The president should have gone onto the tv and told Afghanistan that they had 72 hours to produce him, dead or alive, or else the same would happen to the entire country. AFter the 72 hours, the country should have been carpet bombed and then another announcement - if Osama wasn't brought forth, the bombing would continue. If it is found out that Osama is living in another country, they had 72 hours to produce him or else the same fate would happen. If the national community had issue, we would tell them, "Fine, then no more aid from us and if you get in our way, you get the same."
Yes it would be hell on earth, literally. But as perhaps the most powerful military power in the world, we should either step up as the protective big brother we're trying to be and damn the consequences OR simply step aside and let the world collapse as it is going to do - turn a deaf ear to the genocides that are happening everywhere and build up from the ashes to follow in the decades to come. Let terrorists know that if they try to propagate their agendas through violence, violence will be returned in such a magnitude that there will be nothing left for them to follow their ideals.
I've never prescribed to the idea of if we fight fire with fire, we are just as bad as they are. When people ask me what would make me different than those that do the same thing, my response is that "I will stop doing it."
Note again, this is taking ideals to the absolute extreme but if you want to live in a black and white world like Star Wars, then by all means do it LIKE Star Wars and either start blowing up planets or space stations that carry the population of planets on it.
The Rebels didn't overthrow the Empire through sanctions.
AllianceCHI
Baron
and thus capable of eating stormtroopers faces off?.... Like Ewoks?
I'm scared
I'm scared
Cpt.MarcusNelson said:
Not me.... that would be BEYOND tasteless.
Horrible idea.