I Miss Ward Keys

[Mike Ventrella]

Just seems that JP is good at nailing all of us when we mess up.

Enh, I'd have just scanned my existing copy. I'm sure if I hadn't posted it, someone else would have. I just figure it means that we should only trust Mike as far as his memory will allow.

True enough. That 3rd edition book was done in 1990 or so, quite some time ago, and spellsinging didn't last long because of the problems it had... My memory told me it was one of those "playtesting" things that never made the book!

 

[Tom Andary]

They tried to do it again later, as a playtest called Harmonics.

 

[markusdark]

I liked the slightly different flavor the Harmonics had - more of a pre-fight buffing system. I also enjoyed NERO's Nature magic playtest I helped with - a magic system tailored to dealing with animals and extra-planar creatures.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

I'd like the idea of some more slow/over time healing spells/abilities that would be more "infinite" but not viable in the middle of mods/battles, like for after battle healing and stuff.

 

[Tom Andary]

I'd like the idea of some more slow/over time healing spells/abilities that would be more "infinite" but not viable in the middle of mods/battles, like for after battle healing and stuff.

As would I.

 

[jpariury]

I don't believe that the game would be benefited by more healing. I actually feel quite the contrary - the game would be benefited if healing were significantly scarcer.

 

[Tom Andary]

I don't believe that the game would be benefited by more healing. I actually feel quite the contrary - the game would be benefited if healing were significantly scarcer.

Please explain your POV on this.

I don't see spending a lot more 10-minute breaks as I wait to wake up after being first-aided very much fun.

 

[markusdark]

I don't believe that the game would be benefited by more healing. I actually feel quite the contrary - the game would be benefited if healing were significantly scarcer.

Please explain your POV on this.

I don't see spending a lot more 10-minute breaks as I wait to wake up after being first-aided very much fun.

Here's my POV. I have absolutely NO fear of death in the game. None. Zip. Zero. You know how I planned on taking out the big, bad vampy in my game? I was going to sit on six 50 point explosive traps and wait for him to come over to me and then blow us both up. Only takes one guy with either a cure light wounds spell, cure light damage elixir or just put a hand on me for 10 mins and I'm good to go.

And I always ALWAYS tell people - if things get bad, do NOT come to rescue me. I haven't made a trip to the circle yet so I'm all good. And with all my gobbies, I won't need to worry about that for a long, long, LONG time.

However, with the way that the game has you puking out damage, you need to have the easy quick fixes to keep things going.

 

[Robb G]

I agree with markusdark. I think sometimes Monster camps worry so much about killing PCs that the game loses its fear factor.

 

[Mike Ventrella]

I agree with markusdark. I think sometimes Monster camps worry so much about killing PCs that the game loses its fear factor.

I definitely agree.

But there is a fine line and it's harder to do than you may think -- if the game is too tough, the lower level players feel like they're useless and not have a good time. This requires trying to split up battles and such, and then you need enough NPCs to do that, and that makes it even harder.

But overall, yeah, the amount of deaths we have in game now as compared to ten years ago is nothing, and the fear factor doesn't seem to be as strong.

Some of that is also due to it being a higher level game with lots of Life spells around, too.

Next year we plan on having an alternative campaign in Ashbury where everyone will start a new character at 1st level. That might be interesting and it certainly makes even a goblin attack scary

 

[Maxondaerth]

Alternative as in the Ashbury campaign is going to become an alternative one at first level, every other event will be the lowbie campaign,....? This is seriously intriguing, so now I must know dammit!!!

 

[Dreamingfurther]

The thing is, slower/out of battle healing would NOT really change the fear factor imo. It would just give more of a chance to RP healing/battle cool down than zip zap your fixed. And it wouldn't really help IN the middle of battles or dangerous situations imo because you need speed in those situations, or in other words your much more limited battle magic heal spells.

lower level campaigns/games can be very fun and cool. But the epic that you can get out of characters that have been around for years and years, and hence have the skills/abilities of those years and years of playing is also awesome. The other thing to is that the players who have been playing those characters by this time are usually very good at what they do and often work together amazingly, and that contributes to the survival rate as much as anything.

There is a significant curve in learning how to play the game fast/well as well as getting the build/stat card to back up oog skill.

 

[Toddo]

Alternative as in the Ashbury campaign is going to become an alternative one at first level, every other event will be the lowbie campaign,....? This is seriously intriguing, so now I must know dammit!!!

It's going to be a completely separate campaign that will be in addition to HQ's normally scheduled events. The rest of the details are not mine to know or distribute.
-toddo

 

[Tom Andary]

This just goes to show that every game is a bit different...

We have had quite a few deaths this season, and 2 perms.

 

[Mike Ventrella]

Alternative as in the Ashbury campaign is going to become an alternative one at first level, every other event will be the lowbie campaign,....? This is seriously intriguing, so now I must know dammit!!!

We're not ready to make the announcement yet, but basically it will be a campaign that will run maybe twice a year. You'll have to start at first level and cannot transfer in another character. If your character leaves then he/she cannot come back, and at a certain level you will be required to leave or retire the character.

But that's all I'm going to say for now; there will be another thread about it when we're ready to announce it.

 

[Robb G]

Alternative as in the Ashbury campaign is going to become an alternative one at first level, every other event will be the lowbie campaign,....? This is seriously intriguing, so now I must know dammit!!!

We're not ready to make the announcement yet, but basically it will be a campaign that will run maybe twice a year. You'll have to start at first level and cannot transfer in another character. If your character leaves then he/she cannot come back, and at a certain level you will be required to leave or retire the character.

But that's all I'm going to say for now; there will be another thread about it when we're ready to announce it.

i am excited for this.

 

[jpariury]

Please explain your POV on this.

Risk in general improves the game. Healing reduces the risk. The current prevalence of healing has significantly reduced that level of risk. With less healing, characters are forced to pick their battles more selectively. With less healing, plot is required the send out fewer (relatively mindless) combats.

In general, I find that players enjoyed the game most when they ended each day tapped out, but ultimately successful. They feel a sense of accomplishment when they see others fail, and they feel energized to try something new next time when they do fail. The compliments I see that reflect the greatest level of enjoyment are some variation on "OMG! You made me run!" and "I was scared for a bit!"

It's easy enough to say "Well, just throw more stuff at them". There's a threshold between throwing enough stuff and throwing more than is enjoyable. Prevalent healing requires that in order for their to be risk, you throw enough at them that they don't have time to recover at all. Scarce healing requires only that you throw enough to reduce their resources and start making different choices.

ADDED - I love the idea starting a game with everyone at first level. They have exactly what makes it cool - limited healing and resources. My only comment is "Don't give them easy outs like traveling healer merchants loaded to bear!"

 

[markusdark]

One of the things I was looking forward to with the opening of the SF chapter was that they had planned on not allowing any characters above 5th level to transfer in. Everyone was going to start new characters. Then some of the old players began to whine and moan about their characters they had have for years and they got their way so instead of having kept Nigel running as my main, and only, character, I now have two to deal with because I was hoping for a new experience.

Although, until they came in, for the first couple of events it was quite fun watching everyone play without any life spells.

Just say "No!" to Rez buybacks!

 

[jpariury]

Yeah, I dislike the idea of characters as investments.

 

[Talen]

But overall, yeah, the amount of deaths we have in game now as compared to ten years ago is nothing, and the fear factor doesn't seem to be as strong.

Some of that is also due to it being a higher level game with lots of Life spells around, too.

Next year we plan on having an alternative campaign in Ashbury where everyone will start a new character at 1st level. That might be interesting and it certainly makes even a goblin attack scary

If you could chart the rate of perms over time, I'd bet it'd be a steadily declining rate year-to-year as the number of "save your butt" abilities increases. Not just Lifes, but formal effects, gobbie items, and sheer level gap-age making it tough to gauge events on the side of "dangerous" without killing half the newbies.

Who's the oldest (as in time played) regularly played character left in the Alliance system from pre-split, I wonder?

(And a "newbie" campaign is awesome. Life without too many saves is much more fun to me.)